075 LHD thread

[Jeff Head]

Hi,
China dont have either a heavy transport helicopter or an amphib tracked apc like the one us use...

China does have the Harbin Z-8 helicopters which are relatively large transport helicopters and a locally built version of the Aérospatiale SA 321 Super Frelon. They have since developed their own, more modern and more capable Changhe Z-18 helicopter, which are also of the same weight class. These helicopters are developed in SAR, ASW, AEW, and army transport versions. They currently are used on their LPD vessels which are approximately the same size and layout of the San Antonio Class LPD of the US Navy. The PLAN has four of those vessels now and will probably build at least two more.

They also have developed a Chinese LCAC vessel which is approximately the same size and configuration as the US Navy LCAC. Each LPD is capable of carrying up to four of them...though the Chinese have only built 4-6 of these vessels to date.

They do have numerous amphibious IFVs that deploy both from their Type 071 LPDs and their Type o72 LSTs.

so we are the starting with the big one instead something in the 8-16000 tons range with could still be used in antipiracy and skirmish amphib asw eller as provide training in multiple helicopter handling. In other words arent 40000 tons a bit overkill? It seems a bit out of sync with the otherwise meticulously planed fleet expansion...

As stated above, the Chinese have ample amphibious equipment designs to make an LHD possible, and could build one significantly larger than the displacement you mention, and larger thean the Mistral class or Canberra class if they so choose.

some people expect something in excess of 30,000 tons.

With their LPD experience, and if they build more LCACs, they have the capability of both Amphibious assault, and with the helicopters mentioned, air assault off of such vessels.

We will just have to wait and see what they build...but the chatter makes it pretty apparent that they are indeed preparing...or at least seriously considering...building one soon.

 

[capt.dr.Sam]

ok didn't intend to question plan capability to build and operate such a large vessel, i was more curious on your thougths as to the nessesity of going large at once, since they normaly show such patience... and assuming that if you regard the ship + airwing + landingforce as a system then uss wasp is in another universe compared to san giorgio... and systems takes time to learn how to use effectivley and the more completly the more expensive ... and in a stort term perspective i figured that plan might have as much use for the smaller as the bigger... and could take the chance to perfect its use while saving on costs If starting small i dont duobt that they will have, need and fully use a wasp sized lhd in a more distant future

 

[Jeff Head]

Here are a few examples of what the PLAN is doing amphibious wise (two pages worth):

PLAN Z-8 helicopters operating off of a Type 071 LPD


PLAN Type Z-18 Helicopter


PLAN LCAC operating off of a PLAN Type 071 LPD


Three of the PLANs four Type 071 LPDs (more building)


PLAN Amphibious operations from Type 72 LSTs
​

 

[Jeff Head]

Second page of PLAN amphibious capability photos

PLAN LCAC entering PLAN Type 071 LPD


Joint air and amphibious assault exercise by the PLAN


Numerous PLAN Type 072 LSTs


PLAN Type 071 LPDs operating with Type 072s LSTs...a PLAN ARG


Mutliple PLAN LCACs conducting amphibious assault exercises
​

Now, the PLAN has a lot more building and exercising/training to do. But it is apparent that they are building up their expertise in amphibious assault and air assault from amphibious ships...very similarly to US Navy capabilities.

As such, they have the basic equipment and experience to begin building larger LHD vessels if they so desire.

 

[Jeff Head]

Deleted multiple post

 

[Jeff Head]

ok didn't intend to question plan capability to build and operate such a large vessel, i was more curious on your thougths as to the nessesity of going large at once, since they normaly show such patience...


uss wasp is in another universe compared to san giorgio... and systems takes time to learn how to use effectivley and the more completly the more expensive ...


i dont duobt that they will have, need and fully use a wasp sized lhd in a more distant future

The PLAN is in a position to move toward LHD type vessels. Perhaps not as large as a Wasp, but clearly much larger than a San Giorgio, which is a relatively small LPD. The PLAN already operates their Type 071 LPDs which are much larger than that.

I mentioned the US San Antonio class...which are large LPDs approaching or over 25,000 tons. The PLAN Type 071 LPDs are very closely modeled after the San Antonio configuration and in that same weight.

US Navy San Antonio Class

PLAN Type 071 Class

​

They have been exercising with those for several years now and if their planning calls for a larger, flat deck LHD or LHA, they could go there now if they wanted to start integrating that type of capability into their operations.

Given that their LPD and LCAC developments to date mirror the US Navy so closely...I believe they will most probably be doing so.

 

[capt.dr.Sam]

Truly awesome pics! and that is definetly answere to most of my question... how involwed is the ship (wasp size) in the support of the troops once they are landed and some distance inland? It was in that aspect a figured a ch-53 / chinook size helo was try useful... compared to melin/sea knight/frelon. ..

 

[capt.dr.Sam]

And sry about the constantly confusing misspelings, my tablet has autocorrect in swedish...
it soul be very useful and merlin...

 

[Jeff Head]

Truly awesome pics! and that is definetly answere to most of my question... how involwed is the ship (wasp size) in the support of the troops once they are landed and some distance inland? It was in that aspect a figured a ch-53 / chinook size helo was try useful... compared to melin/sea knight/frelon. ..

Wasp class vessels carry transport helicopters, transport VTOL aircraft (Ospreys), attack helicopters (Conbras and Vipers) and STOVL strike jet fighters (AV-8B Harriers and now F-35Bs).

Clearly the PLAN is not close to having a STOVL transport or Strike fighter lfror their LHDs. But they do have acceptable helicopters to serve in the air assault role and the CAS role for grund troops if they so desire.

I expect the Z-18 transports helicopters to operate off of a PLAN LHD, just like they do off of their LPDs.

I expect either the WZ-10 or WZ-19 helicopters to operate off of the LHD when necessary in a CAS role.

​

Yes...it takes a lot of time and exercises and training to get proficient in these things. Coordinated Air and Amphibious assault is a complicated task. But, if needed, it also provides a very significant power projection capability.

Clearly, the PRC and the PLAN are developing such a capability with their existing helicopters, LCACs, amphibious infantry vehicles, LSTs and LPDs. Their next step will be the larger LHDs...and if that is the case, and if they are prepared financially and logisticall to support it (meaning that they have prepared properly), then if they want the capability, the sooner they start the quicker they will get there..



The PRC is building a lot of them, and they could either be navalized for permanent PLAN duty, or taksed for that support as required.

 

[capt.dr.Sam]

With support i was also thinking about replenishpment of food, ammo and spareparts for vehicles... i would assume that plenty of motoroil is needed to get 2-3000 mostly mechanaized troops to work like a well oiled machine in hostile territory...