071 LPD thread

zoom

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

There is no doubt who is top dog with regards to military hardware.As a Brit i should be -and i am- very chuffed but i don't like monopolies and i hope someday that China can go some way to match this show of strength.Great pic,cheers.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

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the PLAN is making monumental progress in the buildup of their blue water fleet, their amphibious assault capabilities, and ultimately their naval air arm. It will take years to integrate them all effectively, but they are moving forward rapidly...not to mention all of the new, effective guided missile destroyers, guided missile frigates, and attack submarines to escort them, and the logistics vessels to keep them fueled and armed at sea.

Very impressive indeed.

But, as has been stated, they have a ways to go.

In Japan they face a nation that itself already has three very capable amphibious assault ships, two dedicated helo carriers which are geared towards ASW but also multi-purpose, and who is building two dedicated, larger aircraft carriers that will definitely be capable of embarking the Joint Strike Fighter. Add to this the Japanese subs and many very capable escort destroyers and frigates (six of the destroyers being AEGIS vessels) and they alon pose a significant challenge to the PLAN.

Of smaller numbes, but none the less very capable, the South Koreans also possess very capable amphibious assault capabilities and rumored aircraft desires. They too have very capable destroyers and frigates (three destroyers of which are very strong AEGIS vessels).

Finally, you have the US.

The US now has eight vessels of the same class type as the Type 071 and intends to build two more of those. In addition, they have ten much larger Amphibious assault vessels (like those shown in popeye's pic above) that can serve as either Amphibious assault or Sea Control carriers, embarking Harriers now, and then the Joint Strike Fighter...not to mention ten full size nuclear carriers. The US has well over sixty AEGIS destroyers and 22 AEGIS cruisers. They have upwards of 60 nuclear attack submarines too and the largest logictical support navy on the planet...and are well versed and trained in operating all of it.

So...the PLAN has a lot to build to counter these forces. My guess is we will see them continue to grow and expand until they reach the numbers and capability they think they need to protect their interests and keep the sea lanes open for them in whatever contingency. Clearly, the US cannot mass its entire fleet in the Western Pacific and Indian Ocean areas of operation. The US PAcific fleet is large however and with its allies in the Japanese, Koreans, and Australians whom we have not mentioned, there is more than ample strength there for the PLAN planners to contend with.

We have not mentioned the Indians, who also, in the Indian Ocean area which the PLAN will need passage through regularly, are building a strong sea control navy of aircraft carriers and capable destroyers and frigates to escort them. They figure into PLAN strategic planning as well.

I pray there is never a military confrontation. As long as there is not, I am enjoying seeing the naval technology advanced as a result. It's very interesting and is occurring right before our eyes...though particularly with the PLAN we have to wait and wait to see thuings happen. But there is so much happening that we don't have to wait too long before seeing something new in one of the areas or another. That's why I like SD so much. Best place on the net for this info in the Western PAcific IMHO.

Having said all of that, what the Chinese are doing, and have done, is phenominal if you take a look over the years. In the last ten years they have embarked upon and maintained, and accomplished one of the largest and fastest major naval buildups in modern history IMHO and I am sure the people in China are and can be very proud of it. Nothing makes the heart stir for your nation like a fleet of modern, effective warships either coming into, being anchored at, or departing their homeports in front of citrizens who appreciate what they represent.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Wow, now that's task force! Is it safe for all six of those large amphibious assault ships to be together in that formation? Yes I'm sure there are escorts and destroyers to protect them, just curious as to how many at that particular time.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

true Jeff, that part of the world is in a LPD/LHD frenzy, everyone wants one, also Austrilians are not wanting to be left out, they are getting 2 Canberra class amphibious vessels bigger than Type 071 LPD, around 28,000 tons, flat top which can carry between 16-24 helos which is a very large helo fleet

in comparision Chinas 3 LPDs are very small force in terms of amphibous assualt but lets hope they keep making them and bigger and better ones

I just hope we see a new flat top LHD coming out from China very soon, if current production continues by 2020 China can field between 7-8 LPDs and a 1-2 LHDs along with Varyag + Indigenous Carrier, easily 2nd most powerful navy in the world
 

Engineer

Major
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

For some reason everybody wants China to have LHD, but from what I have read over the years I don't think that is very likely. I remember reading about one of the early debates that China had regarding aircraft carrier: they could either pursue a LHD or an aircraft carrier but not both because of funding issues. They eventually decided to pursue full blown aircraft carrier instead of LHD. As I recall, the reasons are that LHD's role isn't clear cut and not battle proven, whereas aircraft carrier is considered as more versatile and has demonstrated usefulness in many conflicts. The money require by both aren't much difference, so it is better to maximize the effect of the R&D cost.

If you look at the current state of China's helicopter industry, you would also realize LHD makes no sense in China whatsoever. China has enough problems putting enough helicopters on its ships right now. These helicopters are considered as "easy" to acquire as they are small and under powered. Large and powerful helicopters that make LHD useful simply do not exist in China. If China doesn't have the helicopters, then what's the purpose of building LHD?
 

zoom

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

LHD's role isn't clear cut and not battle proven, whereas aircraft carrier is considered as more versatile and has demonstrated usefulness in many conflicts. The money require by both aren't much difference, so it is better to maximize the effect of the R&D cost.

There must be a bit more to it than this as all countries would build CV's instead of LHD's.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Well, rest easy Jeff, because I am as certain as can be that the PLAN has no intention of matching the USN because China cannot afford a fleet that large. I am not convinced that even America can afford a fleet that vast, but that is a different matter.

The Chinese do not want a war with America, no sane nation would, but given America's pass record with regards to resorting to bombs, you cannot blame the Chinese for wanting assurances to make sure the military option does not become an easy one for any future George Ws that might get in the White House if a big dispute occurs, as is bound to happen when two fiercely independent nations each pursue their own interests and priorities.

With those factors in mind, the Chinese will never allow themselves to get into a situation where they would make it easy for pro-American countries in the region to jump outboard any American military initiative aimed at China.

Many of China's immediate neighbours may possess mighty war fleets and impressive air forces, but while they look to America for defense, they look to China for trade, and China has already surpassed America as the top trading partner for many if not most of the countries on your list.

That means that while they might have significant military capabilities that they could contribute to any American-lead military action against China, doing so will incur economic and political costs that will easily eclipse any possible military losses, and so it is entirely possible if not probably that they won't get involved. Thus China has likely neutralized their fleets far more effectively than if the PLAN built a fleet powerful enough to match the fleets of all its neighbours put together.

The only reason any of those nations will get involved in the fighting is if they feel directly threatened themselves, and China will never allow itself to get into a situation where they are making all those neighbours feel directly threatened all at once.

So unless something fundamental changes within China of the most improbable nature (and the only remotely possible scenario I can see where that would happen is, ironically, if China went democratic and an ultra-nationalist party came to power), America will very likely find themselves acting alone in any military action it may take against China, and it would be a grave mistake to base the calculation on whether to go to war with China based on the assumption of complete support from everyone else in the region.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

plawolf said:
Rest easy Jeff
No need to rest easy. I have not talked of, or implied any impedning war scenario.

Each nation is doing what it thinks best to protect what it consideres to be its national interests.

At this time, that means both having large fleets and I expect the US to maintain about its current size, and for the PLAN to continue to grow until it meets its needs.

As this happens, because there are differing interests, each will do all it can to ensure that in the contingency of hostilities it is as prepared as it can be. The other nations around the area will do the same.

Thus the current naval arms race and, as I said, it is a very interesting thing for naval enthusiasts to witness...and in the hopes that those contingencies never have to be realized.

engineer said:
If you look at the current state of China's helicopter industry, you would also realize LHD makes no sense
I think the PLAN could build and man a couple of LHDs or LHAs. They also have the helicopters to make it possible.

There's something like the following numbers of each (not all outfitted for troops):

Z-8: App. 20 helos @ 15 troop capability
Z-9: App 200 helos @ 10 troop capbility
M17/171: App 200+ helos @ 24 troop capability
S-70C: App. 20 helos @ 11 troop capability

If they placed 8 M17/171s and 10 Z-9s on an LHA, that would be 18 troop carrying helos (plus other utility, attack, and ASW and/or AEW helos) giving the air assault a max of 300+ troops per wave.

Anyhow, it could be done...whether it will be done or not is another thing...particularly if they can afford to use their helos in this manner.
 

vesicles

Colonel
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

So unless something fundamental changes within China of the most improbable nature (and the only remotely possible scenario I can see where that would happen is, ironically, if China went democratic and an ultra-nationalist party came to power), America will very likely find themselves acting alone in any military action it may take against China, and it would be a grave mistake to base the calculation on whether to go to war with China based on the assumption of complete support from everyone else in the region.

Agreed! Even though many nations in East Asia are allies of the US, what they will do in time of a war between the US and China will be uncertain at best. Large nations use small nations to maximize their own interests while the small nations also do the same, although in a different manner. While large nations usually use brute forces, like intimidation, to get the small nations to do what they want, the small nations usually use finesse to get the large nations to do what they want as well. Just like getting 2 bidders into a bidding war at an auction, small nations usually get 2 large nations into a bidding war as well. Most of the small nations in East Asia do the same with the US and China.They know that both the US and China want them for their interests. So they play the game. Things will be completely different when a war breaks out. It is no longer in their interest for the small nations in the East Asia to get involved between a conflict between the US and China. So most likely, these small nations will sit out and "watch the fire from across the river". They will perhaps get involved when a clear winner emerges and get on the side of the winner.
 

delft

Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

No need to rest easy. I have not talked of, or implied any impedning war scenario.

Each nation is doing what it thinks best to protect what it consideres to be its national interests.

At this time, that means both having large fleets and I expect the US to maintain about its current size, and for the PLAN to continue to grow until it meets its needs.

As this happens, because there are differing interests, each will do all it can to ensure that in the contingency of hostilities it is as prepared as it can be. The other nations around the area will do the same.

Thus the current naval arms race and, as I said, it is a very interesting thing for naval enthusiasts to witness...and in the hopes that those contingencies never have to be realized.

I think the PLAN could build and man a couple of LHDs or LHAs. They also have the helicopters to make it possible.

There's something like the following numbers of each (not all outfitted for troops):

Z-8: App. 20 helos @ 15 troop capability
Z-9: App 200 helos @ 10 troop capbility
M17/171: App 200+ helos @ 24 troop capability
S-70C: App. 20 helos @ 11 troop capability

If they placed 8 M17/171s and 10 Z-9s on an LHA, that would be 18 troop carrying helos (plus other utility, attack, and ASW and/or AEW helos) giving the air assault a max of 300+ troops per wave.

Anyhow, it could be done...whether it will be done or not is another thing...particularly if they can afford to use their helos in this manner.

Which of their helicopters are fit to use aboard ship? Corrosion is a big problem for sea going aircraft.
 
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