071 LPD thread

[kickars]

Re: Type 071 LPD

If you haven't noticed, the RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile is a replacement for the Phalanx CIWS. So having 4 CIWS on the Type 71 is a fair equivalent for a pair of RAM's.

So you mean for a ship like 071, 4 CIWs is a fair equivalent to a pair of RAMs. I'm just not so sure about this. Let's wait and see what (if anything) would happen in the future in regarding to this issue.

 

[Violet Oboe]

Re: Type 071 LPD

Probably the first unit of 071 will be used primarily for test and training purposes at least for around a year and point defense SAM's are obviously of secondary importance for a LPD. (...though having them is better than not!)

The next unit of type 071 or the next batch of type 071 mod will very likely have point defense SAM or at least several CIWS but we will of course have to wait a couple of years for confirmation. (...may be that the project does not have a high priority for PLAN currently?)

 

[tphuang]

Re: Type 071 LPD

You have to remember this is the first time that China has built something this large (if not counting the replenishment ships), so they are likely to be conservative with this first of the class. They can always add more short ranged air defense in the future 071s.

 

[Pointblank]

Re: Type 071 LPD

You have to remember this is the first time that China has built something this large (if not counting the replenishment ships), so they are likely to be conservative with this first of the class. They can always add more short ranged air defense in the future 071s.

Probably some MANPADS can be deployed onboard the ship... A small detachment of PLA air defense soldiers can provide point air defence against low flying aircraft. During the Persian Gulf War, many ships operating with the Coalition had air defence detachments stationed onboard to help defence against low flying aircraft.

 

[adeptitus]

Re: Type 071 LPD

I think if you mount the HQ-7 in front, it wont be able to provide 360-degree coverage for the ship.

There are smaller VLS systems, such as the Israeli Barak and the South African Umkhonto VLS. If we look at some of the older Indian warships, they refitted them with Barak VLS system. On the Rajput (Kashin II) class ships, some had their AK-630M mounts replaced with Barak VLS + EL/M-2221 STGR radar.

Having SAM, CIWS-Gun, and soft-kill systems would provide multi-layered defense against AShM threats. You'd sacrifice some space/weight but get better battlefield survivability in exchange. However, the PLAN doesn't really have a lightweight VL-SAM or RAM/Sea-RAM system. Perhaps this is one area that they need to invest more $ into.

The ROCN probably needs something like the RAM CIWS system even more. At least most PLAN ships have sets of 4 CIWS guns. On many ROCN vessels they only have 1 x Phalanx!

 

[Pointblank]

Re: Type 071 LPD

I think if you mount the HQ-7 in front, it wont be able to provide 360-degree coverage for the ship.

There are smaller VLS systems, such as the Israeli Barak and the South African Umkhonto VLS. If we look at some of the older Indian warships, they refitted them with Barak VLS system. On the Rajput (Kashin II) class ships, some had their AK-630M mounts replaced with Barak VLS + EL/M-2221 STGR radar.

Having SAM, CIWS-Gun, and soft-kill systems would provide multi-layered defense against AShM threats. You'd sacrifice some space/weight but get better battlefield survivability in exchange. However, the PLAN doesn't really have a lightweight VL-SAM or RAM/Sea-RAM system. Perhaps this is one area that they need to invest more $ into.

The ROCN probably needs something like the RAM CIWS system even more. At least most PLAN ships have sets of 4 CIWS guns. On many ROCN vessels they only have 1 x Phalanx!

Again, I have to warn you guys about mission creep. You guys don't want to put too much capability on one platform. What next? A area air defence role for the Type 71 LPD? A ASW role? Anti-shipping? Remember, it all starts with, "but it is unprotected against this threat".

 

[tphuang]

Re: Type 071 LPD

I think if you mount the HQ-7 in front, it wont be able to provide 360-degree coverage for the ship.

There are smaller VLS systems, such as the Israeli Barak and the South African Umkhonto VLS. If we look at some of the older Indian warships, they refitted them with Barak VLS system. On the Rajput (Kashin II) class ships, some had their AK-630M mounts replaced with Barak VLS + EL/M-2221 STGR radar.

Having SAM, CIWS-Gun, and soft-kill systems would provide multi-layered defense against AShM threats. You'd sacrifice some space/weight but get better battlefield survivability in exchange. However, the PLAN doesn't really have a lightweight VL-SAM or RAM/Sea-RAM system. Perhaps this is one area that they need to invest more $ into.

The ROCN probably needs something like the RAM CIWS system even more. At least most PLAN ships have sets of 4 CIWS guns. On many ROCN vessels they only have 1 x Phalanx!

you don't get 360 degree coverage with Barak either unless you have two illuminators.

 

[Sczepan]

Re: Type 071 LPD

.... Even if a single launcher with eight missles and no reloading mechanism was installed, it would still dramatically enhance the ships ability to defend itself from aerial attack.

I think, we should compare the 071 C LPD with western designs, like the 40 yrs old INS Jalashwa (ex USS Trenton), LPD of Austin-Class, the latest induction into the Indian Navy, arrived at Visakhapatnam on PM 12 Sep 07 after being commissioned at Norfolk, USA on 22 Jun 07.
Sems to be nearly simillar in size and job ...

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...
Military Lift: Four Mk 8 landing craft were acquired, along with the purchase of INS Jalashva. These boats are housed in a hangar below.
....
Weapons: In United States Navy service, she was armed with two 25mm Mk 38 guns, two Phalanx CIWS and eight .50-calibre machine guns. It has not been confirmed whether the vessel still has these armaments fitted on board, upon transfer to the Indian Navy.

Helicopters: Six H-3 Sea King maritime utility transport helicopters can be carried on board.
...

two Phalanx CIWS compared to four AK-630 at 071 C ... didn't you think thats in result a win to 071 C class?

 

[pingouin]

Re: Type 071 LPD

I think, we should compare the 071 C LPD with western designs, like the 40 yrs old INS Jalashwa (ex USS Trenton), LPD of Austin-Class, the latest induction into the Indian Navy, arrived at Visakhapatnam on PM 12 Sep 07 after being commissioned at Norfolk, USA on 22 Jun 07.
Sems to be nearly simillar in size and job ...

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two Phalanx CIWS compared to four AK-630 at 071 C ... didn't you think thats in result a win to 071 C class?

Sczep, the Type 071 is claimed to be 210m (based on sat pics), which is much longer than Trenton and similar ships e.g. Dutch Rotterdam, Spain's Galicia, Uk's Albion in the 16000 displacement range. The Chinese ship apparently is longer and narrower. Not sure straight comparision would be accurate.

The armament is not the prime determinant of an LPDs effectiveness. I'ld focus on what it can move and how far all in one go, and what it brings in terms of delivery systems. It needs escorts anyway.

 

[tphuang]

Re: Type 071 LPD

new pictures of 071, apparently, it's going into service with the name KunLunShan. I believe KunLun is the name for WP-14 engine and shan is mountain. Also, the penant number was mentionned as 998?