071 LPD thread

[Blitzo]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

@ patriota

I completely agree with your analysis, but I'm really sorry to have to cut you off again with these back and forth posts.

I really want to drill in this whole notion that 4 LCACs can fit. Hopefully these couple of posts will be referred back to when people challenge in future if 071's well deck can fit 4 LCACs



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Okay, Asif. I've changed your diagram a little. I have drawn red lines where the lights are, and done the same for the two photos. Remember, there are FOUR LINES, each for one traffic light.

 

[Blitzo]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

we are back to where we started!! you cant fit LCAC infront of light 4! just look at the space, you trying to say AFTER light 4 theres 35m+??

and your edited diagram is wrong because LCAC 1 does not sit infront of light 1 by that much

... I think we need to recalibrate which is light 1 and light 4

Can we refer to the photos numbering system instead?

That is to say, the traffic light most forward (i.e.: closest to the bow) is light 4.
The traffic light closest to the aft/well deck door is light 1.

AFT/back of ship light 4, light 3, light 2, light 1 BOW/front of ship


BTW: Yes that is exactly what I am saying, there is 33+m right behind light 1.

please tell me this agree or disagree on this part, just right agree or disagree

--you cant fit LCAC after light 4

After recalibrating light 4 into light 1 (that is to say, the light closest to the aft, that is to say, the traffic light below...)

I obviously disagree. Asif, this photo shows the freaking LCAC right there, behind light 1 and the well deck door!!!!
Right there. There is your 33+ meters behind light 1!!!

and

--LCAC 1 sits after light 1 or partially after light 1

After recalibrating, Light 1 is light 4, okay?

So yes, I agree, LCAC 4 sits right "after" light 4.

 

[Blitzo]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I've drawn out the state of the two pictures.

I think this should finally clarify what the hell is going on.

 

[jobjed]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Ok... after an entire day of headaches and inability to pay attention at school due to my obsessiveness with this picture, I think I have finally found what appears to be a mathematical answer to this question. The final answer I got was 122m from where the photographer was standing to the end of the well deck. I just want to put forward this answer first, I'll upload the mathematical explanations on my photobucket in an hour or so and upload them to this thread. This is the picture I used, courtesy of Asif.

Edit: son of a *****! Just realised I have made an error in substituting the equations. I can't just use ratios straight-up to measure the lengths, I need to put the ratios in proportion to angles before I can do anything. Translated in English: I missed a step. Please, forgive my untimely intrusion on this discussion, I shall endeavour to put forward a corrected response soon.

 

[steve_rolfe]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I've drawn out the state of the two pictures.

I think this should finally clarify what the hell is going on.

I understand these diagrams 'Bltizo'........but then again i'am CAD engineer........for those that don't your basing your views from the wrong starting point on the diagrams!

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

our numbering of the lights is correct, i am using same numbers as photo

1 is at the back of the ship and 4 at the front, so the entrance to the well deck deck is light 1 and upto 4 until you reach bow

your diagram is wrong, because in the picture LCAC 1 sits partially infront of light 1 you even show it with the red lines, look at it

the light 1 cuts the LCAC as you have shown, it does not start and stop bang at the light

now if thats the case then we have only 3 fixed distances, thats light 1-light 2-light 3 because after light 4 you can see the well deck ends, so we have

light 1-light 2-light 3-light 4
LCAC1-LCAC-2-LCAC-3

so star are the lights

*----*----*----*---bow
LCAC1-LCAC2-LCAC3

note the L is the bridge of the LCAC

 

[jobjed]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I really have to go to sleep now. I wish someone with more experience in mathematics can help us decipher this puzzle.

First, the vertical left red line is 4 times closer to the photographer than the vertical blue line, which is at the end of the well-deck. So if someone can figure out the distance between the photographer and the red line (AKA the nearer sailor), then times that by 4 and you can the distance between the photographer and the end of the well-deck. The height of the red and blue line is 7.6m if you assume the sailor is 1.7m tall.

This website might be of some assistance.

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The original photograph is one posted by Asif, the vertical red line is drawn onto the sailor (not marines) nearer the photographer on the railings.

Good luck to whoever is willing to attempt this puzzle. I'm sorry I couldn't have solved it but I really have to sleep.

 

[patriota]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Uuuuffff .... here we go again.

We have some consensus that there is 4 traffic lights, ok? No doubt about that.

We have one photo with the TF (Traffic light) nº 1, a LCAC, and the door of the well deck. Is the TF nº 1, and the LCAC sits infront of it.

Ergo:

Well deck door (or doors) - LCAC - TF nº 1.

Ok, no doubt about that (we can see in the photo).

There is a second photo. In this photo we can see 3 TFs (numbered 2, 3 and 4). In front of every TF a LCAC sits.

Then, again:

well deck door - LCAC - TF nº1 - LCAC - TF nº 2 - LCAC - TF nº 3 - LCAC - TF nº 4 - end of well deck

No doubt about that. Every LCAC sits in front of every TF. We could doubt that 1 LCAC stits in front of TF nº 1 (the space between well deck door and TF nº 1 seems shorter than de rest) but we have a photo with the LCAC sits in.

Asif, I can´t understand Why in your photo you put de LCAC-1 in the place asigned to LCAC-2, because LCAC-1 is in the first photo, and with the marks of the pipes, it´s clear that there is the place of the second LCAC.

 

[patriota]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

our numbering of the lights is correct, i am using same numbers as photo

1 is at the back of the ship and 4 at the front, so the entrance to the well deck deck is light 1 and upto 4 until you reach bow

your diagram is wrong, because in the picture LCAC 1 sits partially infront of light 1 you even show it with the red lines, look at it

the light 1 cuts the LCAC as you have shown, it does not start and stop bang at the light

now if thats the case then we have only 3 fixed distances, thats light 1-light 2-light 3 because after light 4 you can see the well deck ends, so we have

light 1-light 2-light 3-light 4
LCAC1-LCAC-2-LCAC-3

so star are the lights

*----*----*----*---bow
LCAC1-LCAC2-LCAC3

note the L is the bridge of the LCAC

Are you serious?

The LCAC 1 sits in front of TF nº 1. A minimum part of the ramp touch the red line, remark minimum. Every LCAC has two ramps, and the front ramp of one LCAC and the back ramp of the other LCAC collige for the transit of the vehicles to the first LCAC to the last LCAC.

So, ...

door - LCAC * LCAC *LCAC*LCAC* - bow

 

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

im being serious here, how many gaurd rails at the top can you count between the traffic lights, id say ~25, just zoom and count yourself, do you really think there is 25 gaurd railings after the 4th light?? that well deck is no more than 80-90 metres full length, if you can see it fine if not im not going to convince you

I counted 30 guard rails between lights. But the point is this, the LCACs are parked to the aft of each light...they do not need 30m in front of the light, they need it behind the light...towards the aft, and in the first pic it clearly shows that the 1st LCAC has enough room behind the light to fit in...ergo, the others will too.

I believe they can fit four in. I also believe they have room in those hangars to cram in four Z-8s if they want.

What astonishes me is how little left over there then is in the vessel for berthing troops and their equipment.

A US vessel is designed to maximize the number of troops and equipment it can hold and then push those ashore in consecutive waves...totaling far more than what one or two trips would carry...requiring maybe four or five waves or more.

The PLAN Type 071 vessels seems to carry far fewer troops and equipment, and therefore be able to land fewer, but quicker and with less waves.

The US overcomes this by employing more vessels of varrying sorts...from the huge LHDs and LHAs to the LPDs similar to the Type 071, to large LSDs which are significantly larger thatn the PLANs Type 073 LSTs.