071 LPD thread

[Lion]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

LCAC is faster than floating IFV or tank. And LCAC can transport SPG and the heaviest tank such as Type 99G which is much capable than floating tank and Taiwan's M60A3 and M48H MBT. Moreover, LCAC can create "beachheads" inland, such as the center of Taipei city which is dozens kilometers away from the Tamsui river mouth. LCAC takes minutes along Tamsui river to Center of Taipei city. And floating tanks need to take hours there if they are not dragged by strong tides, currents and turbulence.
PLA LCAC assault is nightmare of Taiwan defense. M60A3 and M48H MBT are not a match to Type99. And MBT battalions are not garrisoned in the Taipei downtown. It is very difficult to transport MBT through traffics to counterattack Type-99G along the Tamsui riverside.

LCAC extends the "beach" to the riversides inland. So the defense needs to be spread out. Furthermore, LCAC can be launched from any suitable platforms. If it carries enough fuels for itself, LCAC can directly cross Taiwan strait by itself.

Putting all eggs on LCAC is dangerous. All it take is probably one hell missile and sink it. While many ZTD-05 swarming like bees at enemy will make them difficult to destroy. ZTD-05 can swim at at least 20knots and is capable of firing anti tank missile or its 105mm gun(but at lower swimming speed)firing with stabiliser as demonstrated in many amphibious exercise.

China LPD can carry 4 LCAC which means only 4 Type96 MBT can be carry shore at one trip. While ZTD-05 can swimm by itself. All you need is open the ramp behind. I can bet one LPD will unleash at least 10 of them swarming at the enemies shore.

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[ladioussupp]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Putting all eggs on LCAC is dangerous. All it take is probably one hell missile and sink it. While many ZTD-05 swarming like bees at enemy will make them difficult to destroy. ZTD-05 can swim at at least 20knots and is capable of firing anti tank missile or its 105mm gun(but at lower swimming speed)firing with stabiliser as demonstrated in many amphibious exercise.

China LPD can carry 4 LCAC which means only 4 Type96 MBT can be carry shore at one trip. While ZTD-05 can swimm by itself. All you need is open the ramp behind. I can bet one LPD will unleash at least 10 of them swarming at the enemies shore.

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Of course, PLA will not put all eggs on 726-class LCAC. Similarly, US Navy does not put all eggs on LCAC. So US Navy have tilt-rotors, helicopters, and floating IFV. However, LCAC is the only carrier for heaviest Tank which is not replaceable as a nutshell in first strike.

Over the horizon assault does not equal to assault inland. If US Navy wants to assault inland with heavy armor, LCAC carrying M1A1 is the only choice. Type 99 class MBT is essential if the enemy is M-60A3 and M48H. Those floating tins cannot drive well and fire in water. Even climbing up, they are not a match for real MBT combined arms.

Southern-sea scenario is not an amphibious problem. It is a sea-control problem. No strong points in south sea can sustain 76mm or 100mm gunfires. After that, squads from Z-8 can occupy the islands with helps from WZ-10 or WZ-19 gunships. No LCAC or floating tins are needed.

LCAC is definitely an important play role in Taiwan scenario because only Taiwan equips with armor brigades can easily defeats those thin-skinned floating tins.

BTW, if you do think ZTD-05 can swim more than 20knots, I have no more to say. Thank you~~

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

BTW, if you do think ZTD-05 can swim more than 20knots, I have no more to say. Thank you~~

yeah i think that must be on land speed, i doubt any assault vehcile can clock more than 7-8knots on water even less depending on the load and maybe 2 knots if it decides to fire

 

[Lion]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Of course, PLA will not put all eggs on 726-class LCAC. Similarly, US Navy does not put all eggs on LCAC. So US Navy have tilt-rotors, helicopters, and floating IFV. However, LCAC is the only carrier for heaviest Tank which is not replaceable as a nutshell in first strike.

Over the horizon assault does not equal to assault inland. If US Navy wants to assault inland with heavy armor, LCAC carrying M1A1 is the only choice. Type 99 class MBT is essential if the enemy is M-60A3 and M48H. Those floating tins cannot drive well and fire in water. Even climbing up, they are not a match for real MBT combined arms.

Southern-sea scenario is not an amphibious problem. It is a sea-control problem. No strong points in south sea can sustain 76mm or 100mm gunfires. After that, squads from Z-8 can occupy the islands with helps from WZ-10 or WZ-19 gunships. No LCAC or floating tins are needed.

LCAC is definitely an important play role in Taiwan scenario because only Taiwan equips with armor brigades can easily defeats those thin-skinned floating tins.

BTW, if you do think ZTD-05 can swim more than 20knots, I have no more to say. Thank you~~

May I know how do Taiwan equip armour bridages can easily defeat those thin skin floating tins of the PLAN? You don't need heavy armour protection to defeat another armour , right? You need accurate and powerful gun to defeat another armour.. Am I correct?

As for ZTD-05, probably can really reach 20knots. But I am very sure its speed is near 20knots. You are probably confusing ZTD-05 with older version of PLAN Amphibious fighting vehicle always show on video. ZTD-05 enter service in 2009 and the structure and design clearly emphasize in high speed mobility on sea. They are not the old PLAN slow sea moving amphibious assault vehicle.

The ZBD2000 uses a planing hull propelled by two water jets achieving water travelling speed much greater than any current amphibious armoured vehicle in the PLA Marine Corps, on top of its enhanced speed it has increased range, allowing it to launch over over-the-horizon assaults.
The vehicle is designed with hydraulic-actuated bow with transom flaps, designed to aid hull skimming across the surface of the water. When activated the bow and transom flaps with the bottom of the hull form a planing surface, allowing the vehicle to go faster from its hydrodynamic drag reduction on the vehicle's hull.
The ZBD2000 features flat, boat-like hull, with 6 road wheels and front/rear rollers. A welded turret is mounted in the centre of the hull, with the powerpack positioned in the front and passenger compartment in the rear.

As for PLAN amphibious doctrine. Clearly PLAN and USMC both have different way of seeing amphibious assault shall conduct in what way.

 

[Lion]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

yeah i think that must be on land speed, i doubt any assault vehcile can clock more than 7-8knots on water even less depending on the load and maybe 2 knots if it decides to fire

You clearly have no idea what you are talking....

[video=youtube;Jv9Eq1vopbc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv9Eq1vopbc[/video]

Check out 0:35 seconds to 01:00.. Does that looks more than 7-8knots to you? Is that an eye opener for both of you?

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Naa still looks like 8 knots to me

 

[Lion]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Naa still looks like 8 knots to me

BTW, if you do think that video swim of the vehicle like 8knots or less, I have no more to say. Thank you~~

I am using ladioussupp verse....

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Speed road: 72.41 km/h (45 mph)
water: 46 km/h (28.6 mph) (water)

1 knots equal 1.852km/hr..

 

[ladioussupp]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

May I know how do Taiwan equip armour bridages can easily defeat those thin skin floating tins of the PLAN? You don't need heavy armour protection to defeat another armour , right? You need accurate and powerful gun to defeat another armour.. Am I correct?

As for ZTD-05, probably can really reach 20knots. But I am very sure its speed is near 20knots. You are probably confusing ZTD-05 with older version of PLAN Amphibious fighting vehicle always show on video. ZTD-05 enter service in 2009 and the structure and design clearly emphasize in high speed mobility on sea. They are not the old PLAN slow sea moving amphibious assault vehicle.

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It is off topic. But rumor said top speed is 20~30 km/hr or 10~18knots. Anyway, high-speed testing or charging to beachhead is not similar to maneuver in real war. Zig-zagging and gun firing serious decrease the speed, so does tides, waves, currents, and turbulence. It does not even count for keeping tactical formations, evasive movements, and underwater obstacles. Maybe it is why US abandoned expensive EFV.

With regard to MBT combined arm vs floating tins, I don't want to off course any more.

 

[Lion]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

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It is off topic. But rumor said top speed is 20~30 km/hr or 10~18knots. Anyway, high-speed testing or charging to beachhead is not similar to maneuver in real war. Zig-zagging and gun firing serious decrease the speed, so does tides, waves, currents, and turbulence. It does not even count for keeping tactical formations, evasive movements, and underwater obstacles. Maybe it is why US abandoned expensive EFV.

With regard to MBT combined arm vs floating tins, I don't want to off course any more.

Actually rumour is top speed is 45km/hr for ZBD2000/ ZTD-05 which translate to 24knots. Since I give you benefit of doubt by helping you save your face by agreeing it shall be less than 20knots since ZTD-05 is heavy than EFV. But rumour is ZTD-05 has fitted with a more powerful engine... The link you provide is a taiwanese website. You shall know how taiwanese always view PRC military with those kind of downplay....

I suggest both of you read up more on PLAN amphibious assault and do not use USMC as the golden standard to set upon PLAN. PLAN had conducted amphibious assault exercise for 20 years, they do have their wise when comes to how amphibious assault shall be conducted.

 

[ladioussupp]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Actually rumour is top speed is 45km/hr for ZBD2000/ ZTD-05 which translate to 24knots. Since I give you benefit of doubt by helping you save your face by agreeing it shall be less than 20knots since ZTD-05 is heavy than EFV. But rumour is ZTD-05 has fitted with a more powerful engine... The link you provide is a taiwanese website. You shall know how taiwanese always view PRC military with those kind of downplay....

I suggest both of you read up more on PLAN amphibious assault and do not use USMC as the golden standard to set upon PLAN. PLAN had conducted amphibious assault exercise for 20 years, they do have their wise when comes to how amphibious assault shall be conducted.

I believe that you are the very expert in amphibious warfare in China. It is very lucky and helpful to Republic of China government standing in Taiwan for six decades.