071 LPD thread

[Subedei]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Yes, if called upon to serve. Spratlys, Paracels, DYT, Taiwan. All of them. Any of them. Problem?

uuuh, uuuh, no problem

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I think the LPD is much more capable than the LSTs, and even with two heavy lift helos operating at once on the deck, I believe the hangar spaces my be able to hold two large and two medium...but am not sure on that. Anyhow, with two at a time, and with a couple of the Type 071s involved together, that means four heavy lift helos coming at you at once for air assault, while probably six full LCACs are coming at the beach at the same time.

That's a lot to counter given that it can land on any beach, anywhere as long as they are suitably supported.

With the PLAN LCAC capability and the air assault capanility, if two LPDs act together, they can pull off a pretty good landing, but would have to have additional air support, either from the carrier or land based.

But these LPDs are just a first step in the upgrade to the PLANs amphibious assault capability. My guess is that ultimately the PLAN will have maybe four LHDs and maybe six LPDs that will be able to, with some of the later model LSTs form up very nice ARGs for the PLAN and be far, far more effective than anything they could otherwise perform with the LSTs alone.

An LHD, with two LPDs and four LSTs, escorted by a couple of FFGs and DDGs would make a potent ARG.

Such a force could easily carry a large size brigade and would be great for China, however I think China is again going for a "jump" in technology and leap frogging a generation

It looks like the US is moving away from typical bloody beech assualts to more use of air power in a amphibious campaign, which is why America Class does away with a well deck and has a hanger, basically a aircraft carrier that can do beech assault

This might also explain why we haven't seen a quick follow up for a Mistral Class LHD from China, they might go straight for a large assault ship like 40,000 tons hence the delay

Secondly US has also developed V-22 for fast heavy assault, basically moved away from helicopters which are slower, the shift in amphibious assault is slowly moving away from a slow sea attack to a fast air attack and I have a feeling China might follow same strategy

 

[AlienCraft]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I think the LPD is much more capable than the LSTs, and even with two heavy lift helos operating at once on the deck, I believe the hangar spaces my be able to hold two large and two medium...but am not sure on that. Anyhow, with two at a time, and with a couple of the Type 071s involved together, that means four heavy lift helos coming at you at once for air assault, while probably six full LCACs are coming at the beach at the same time.

That's a lot to counter given that it can land on any beach, anywhere as long as they are suitably supported.

With the PLAN LCAC capability and the air assault capanility, if two LPDs act together, they can pull off a pretty good landing, but would have to have additional air support, either from the carrier or land based.

But these LPDs are just a first step in the upgrade to the PLANs amphibious assault capability. My guess is that ultimately the PLAN will have maybe four LHDs and maybe six LPDs that will be able to, with some of the later model LSTs form up very nice ARGs for the PLAN and be far, far more effective than anything they could otherwise perform with the LSTs alone.

An LHD, with two LPDs and four LSTs, escorted by a couple of FFGs and DDGs would make a potent ARG.

What is ARG stand for?

 

[Mysterre]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

What is ARG stand for?

Amphibious Ready Group.

 

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

It looks like the US is moving away from typical bloody beech assualts to more use of air power in a amphibious campaign, which is why America Class does away with a well deck and has a hanger, basically a aircraft carrier that can do beech assault

This might also explain why we haven't seen a quick follow up for a Mistral Class LHD from China, they might go straight for a large assault ship like 40,000 tons hence the delay

Secondly US has also developed V-22 for fast heavy assault, basically moved away from helicopters which are slower, the shift in amphibious assault is slowly moving away from a slow sea attack to a fast air attack and I have a feeling China might follow same strategy

The US is not moving away from a beach assault in the least, attacking the beach directly with LCVPs and LCACs, and indirectly through heavy air assault.

The America class will be two ships of that class that are air-centric to give the Marines much more close air support in that environment without having to rely on a dedicated CVN and at the same time provide heavy air assault componenet of any landings,

There will only be two (as of current planning) to be air-centric vessles with no well deck. The rest of the new builds in that class will be along the lines of the Wasp Class and look like the America but with a well deck like the Wasp.

So, the US is continuing with its develoopment of and orientation of being able to attack direclty from the Sea, or "Forward from the Sea," with a very balanced assortment of over-the-beach capabilioty and heavy air assault capaability to help establish the beachhead.

And the US Navy is continuing to develop all of the necessary plaftorms to support that, including a new class of LCAC, the new San Antonio LPDs, developing a new class of LSTs, bringing along the new America class (both types), continuing with the major LHD vessels (WASP Class) and to do so better and better with the Sea Basing strategy directly geared towards support all of it.

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Really? I did not know that future America class will have well decks, when was this?

 

[kwaigonegin]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Really? I did not know that future America class will have well decks, when was this?

no.. America Class will be air assault priority/sea control which means they will have no well decks or very small ones even in Flight II so in that sense you are right... BUT that does not mean Jeff is incorrect. He is also right. They USN is not going all 'air' only in terms of Amphibious Assault. There is NO WAY any aircraft in the forseeable future launch from sea that can carry M-1 Abrams. The goal is and always will be for each task force be able to carry at least one if not two MEU... which consist of about 2000 Marines, tanks, light tanks, and a bunch of other vehicles. That has not and will not change anytime soon.

again there is ZERO possiblilty any aircraft launch from sea be able to carry an entire Marine MEU in and fast. You need LCACs, you need AAVs etc.. and only a LHD is big enough to carry those.

Wasp class are relatively new so they will be complemented by the America class. America class is not replacing the Wasp class.

 

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Really? I did not know that future America class will have well decks, when was this?

no.. America Class will be air assault priority/sea control which means they will have no well decks or very small ones even in Flight II so in that sense you are right... BUT that does not mean Jeff is incorrect. He is also right.

LHA 6, the USS America, and LHA 7, the USS Tripoli, will not have well decks, but will be, as I said, "Aircraft Centric."

LHA 8 and those built after her after will have a well deck, albeit a little smaller than the Wasp Class LHD well deck. They may end up calling them a new class because of this, but right now they are all intended to be called the "America" class.

As I said, their well deck from LHA 8 on will be slightly smaller than the well deck on the USS Wasp class, embarking two LCACs instead of three.

Here's the quote from US Marine Col. Weisz, the Deputy Commander of Expeditionaty Group Two.

Both AMERICA and TRIPOLI will have an increased aviation capacity to include an enlarged hangar deck, realignment and expansion of the aviation maintenance facilities, a significant increase in available stowage for parts and support equipment, and increased JP-5 aviation fuel capacity.

The AMERICA and TRIPOLI will use the same gas turbine propulsion plant, zonal electrical distribution and electric auxiliary systems designed and built for the USS MAKIN ISLAND, replacing the maintenance intensive steam plants of earlier ships. This unique auxiliary propulsion system is designed primarily for fuel efficiency.

Question: And the LHAs after 6 and 7 will have a well deck?

Col Weisz: Yes, but it is not planned to be the same size of the well deck that was built into the WASP Class amphibious assault ships (LHDs 1-8). The WASP Class warships can embark three LCACs (Landing Craft Air Cushion Vehicle) or two LCUs (Landing Craft Utility) in their well deck. LHA 8 is currently being designed to be able to embark two LCACs or one LCU; again, due to a smaller well deck than that of the WASP Class LHDs. A blue-green study was conducted by OPNAV-HQMC and validated that the smaller well deck of LHA 8 could still easily support the rapid build-up of landing forces ashore.

You can read the entire interview

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[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

interesting, i did not know that future builds will include a well deck, learn something new everyday!

back to beech landings i did not mean to say that assault by sea will be taken over by air,no, but there will be more emphasis on air assault, the faster you close the distance between ship and shore less risk, which is why V22 came about, its faster and can lift more marines

no doubt equipment will be and can only be deployed by sea, but marines can be dropped by the air with a top cover by F35

essentaully a America Class can free up a aircraft carrier if air support is needed because it can do that all by itself

 

[Jeff Head]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

essentaully a America Class can free up a aircraft carrier if air support is needed because it can do that all by itself

Exactly, and that is the whole idea. The US Marines will end up having two of their own carriers, which can slso conduct significant air assault in addition to close support, ensuring that one will always be available.

And, in a pinch, if the US Navy needs a Sea Control carrier, so they do not have to use a nuclear super carrier, one of these can be tasked for this without also tying up a well-deck vessel.