071 LPD thread

[Mysterre]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Soldiers can march for 2 days and fight but can't stay in a boat for 2 days and fight? I'm sure they can get some rest in there anyway. Soldiers have fought through much more demanding conditions, if they can't tough it out for 2 days then they don't deserve to be soldiers. Also, as others have said, you don't necessarily have to go from mainland straight to the target.

I'm sure you could make them stay in their seats for 2 days straight but why the hell would you want to? Soldiers who force march and fight are exhausted before they even start fighting. It would be the same for soldiers forced to sit in their cramped seats. The hundreds of soldiers probably would also have to share the single bathroom facility that exists on that ship or else deal with the monster that is a portapotty on a hovercraft traveling over open ocean. Or maybe you think they can hold it for two days. As for island-hopping, that is a possibility, but to maintain troop freshness they would have to be carried separately until just prior to the beach assault. Not logistically impossible, but you would be paying a price in hardware and logistics to have the option of OTH hovercraft assault with these ships, when this could be accomplished far easier by using a 071, which could carry 3 or possibly 4 times the equipment/troops of a single Zubr.

 

[rhino123]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I acknowledged that the Zubr class hovercraft do not have enough range to reach most of SEA nations and seemingly without enough legs for much use except for Taiwan and the DYT scenarios. However I came across something pretty interesting from the wikipedia (yes, I know wikipedia is not the most accurate source), the Zubr can be launched from equipped/non-equipped vessels.

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It is designed to sealift landing assault units (such as marines or tanks) from equipped/non-equipped vessels to non-equipped shore

So was it possible that the Zubr be part of an assault group that include the 071, 081, some replendishing vessels and some escort. Brought the Zubr to within range, then load up the marines, or some of the Zubr to already been equipped with medium tanks. Then making use of the speed of the Zubr to land troops down on the shores of the opposition nations, and capture those shores, then holding the shores for long enough to allow for the rest of the assault force to arrive and land.

If that is the case, then the accomodation of the assault force (say 400 to 500marines) a Zubr can be carried in the comfort of a 071 before loading them to the Zubr at the last leg, and land those marines quickly. I think that is a possible scenario that the Chinese would consider or would use.

 

[MwRYum]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I acknowledged that the Zubr class hovercraft do not have enough range to reach most of SEA nations and seemingly without enough legs for much use except for Taiwan and the DYT scenarios. However I came across something pretty interesting from the wikipedia (yes, I know wikipedia is not the most accurate source), the Zubr can be launched from equipped/non-equipped vessels.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So was it possible that the Zubr be part of an assault group that include the 071, 081, some replendishing vessels and some escort. Brought the Zubr to within range, then load up the marines, or some of the Zubr to already been equipped with medium tanks. Then making use of the speed of the Zubr to land troops down on the shores of the opposition nations, and capture those shores, then holding the shores for long enough to allow for the rest of the assault force to arrive and land.

If that is the case, then the accomodation of the assault force (say 400 to 500marines) a Zubr can be carried in the comfort of a 071 before loading them to the Zubr at the last leg, and land those marines quickly. I think that is a possible scenario that the Chinese would consider or would use.

The Zubr is more likely a late-delivery due to the drawn-out negotiations and covering certain technology transfers, because the whole 071 / LCAC combo implies the PLAN is adopting the US model of amphibious assault, not the Russian's (or ex-Soviet, in this case) model. The advantage of Zubr-class is large capacity plus a certain level of onboard firepower (the firepower part in the US model is shouldered by USMC's fixed and rotary wing assets; ex-Soviets have rotary wing assets in Mi-8 and Mi-24, but not fixed wing assets).

 

[delft]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Looking again at the Zubr wiki page I struck me that the engines are NK-12MV, a version of engine that was developed around 1950 for the Tu-95 bomber and also used in the An-22 in the '60's. The engines of the Mi-26, D-136, derived from the turbofans of the Yak-42 airliner, are nearly as powerful and much more modern so presumably lighter and less thirsty. So why this choise?

 

[ChinaGuy]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Or maybe you think they can hold it for two days.

Soldiers are trained to crap in situ as the brits did while marching towards port stanley. Only in a mommy's boy army would they get to have the option of dialling for a porta-loo for express delivery by dick chaney.

The PLA is a whole different class of tough men. If they are ordered to hold their position for 2 days, you can be sure they can accomplish it, or die trying.

 

[plawolf]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Soldiers are trained to crap in situ as the brits did while marching towards port stanley. Only in a mommy's boy army would they get to have the option of dialling for a porta-loo for express delivery by dick chaney.

The PLA is a whole different class of tough men. If they are ordered to hold their position for 2 days, you can be sure they can accomplish it, or die trying.

It's not a question of toughness, but necessity and common sense.

Sure you can make your soldiers tough it out for two days strapped into bucket seats stewing in their own filth while being constantly battered by 10ft waves the whole time, so little chance of them getting much sleep of meaningful rest. But you will have to realise that such mistreatment is going to badly affect the combat readiness and effectiveness of your troops.

Why would you want to put them through all that when you can use other assets and/or strategies to get your men into position far more comfortably so that they arrive rested and fresh?

Having tough men able to take a lot of crap is a credit to the men, such men deserve far better than commanders who would force them to endure horrific conditions just to prove a point or because they cannot use what assets they have creatively to minimise the burden on their troops.

 

[asif iqbal]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Soldiers are trained to crap in situ as the brits did while marching towards port stanley. Only in a mommy's boy army would they get to have the option of dialling for a porta-loo for express delivery by dick chaney.

The PLA is a whole different class of tough men. If they are ordered to hold their position for 2 days, you can be sure they can accomplish it, or die trying.

probably the most silly comment ive ever read!

the soldiers are only as good as the commanders that lead them

 

[plawolf]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Looking again at the Zubr wiki page I struck me that the engines are NK-12MV, a version of engine that was developed around 1950 for the Tu-95 bomber and also used in the An-22 in the '60's. The engines of the Mi-26, D-136, derived from the turbofans of the Yak-42 airliner, are nearly as powerful and much more modern so presumably lighter and less thirsty. So why this choise?

Well Ukriane could barely make Zubrs using existing blueprints, and look how badly delayed this relatively straight forward task ended up being.

Even if integrating new engines is within the technical ability of the company making the Zubrs, one really shudders at the likely delays that would have entailed.

We need to remember the time and circumstances under which the original deal was struck, and at that time, a war to retake Taiwan was a very real and almost imminent prospect. The PLA would have wanted the Zubrs delivered and operational ASAP.

Besides, as we have established, the Zubrs are short range assault platforms ill suited to long range deployments. In that respect, how much of a meaningful improvement would lighter and more fuel efficient engines have made? Especially if that came at the expense of raw thrust and maybe speed (if the weight savings are not enough to offset the lower thrust)?

 

[ChinaGuy]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

probably the most silly comment ive ever read!

the soldiers are only as good as the commanders that lead them

They have the best commanders anywhere. The art of war dictates the commanders must treat their men as if they are their own sons. You can be assured China's commanders follow this dictum to the letter t.

But in war, you have to endure the unendurable, for commanders and soldiers alike. Victory comes to those who over come all adversity, even death. This is why the PLA soldiers dropped like flies in the long march against enemies armed with the latest US weaponry and transport, yet emerged victorious. Holding position for two days on a hovercraft would just be a minor feat in comparison.

Maybe it's people's diet. I find I can go, not in a big way, quite easily for 2 days or more. I'd suggest less burgers and more rice for other militaries, for increased endurance in the model of the PLA.

 

[Mysterre]

re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

They have the best commanders anywhere. The art of war dictates the commanders must treat their men as if they are their own sons. You can be assured China's commanders follow this dictum to the letter t.

But in war, you have to endure the unendurable, for commanders and soldiers alike. Victory comes to those who over come all adversity, even death. This is why the PLA soldiers dropped like flies in the long march against enemies armed with the latest US weaponry and transport, yet emerged victorious. Holding position for two days on a hovercraft would just be a minor feat in comparison.

Maybe it's people's diet. I find I can go, not in a big way, quite easily for 2 days or more. I'd suggest less burgers and more rice for other militaries, for increased endurance in the model of the PLA.

You read like a propaganda piece for the PLA, while I have absolutely no doubt you have no backup or personal experience whatsoever for what you are posting here. Please stop with the unsubstantiated patriotic chest-thumping and turning every little thing into "Chinese characteristics".