056 class FFL/corvette

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Maggern

Maggern

Junior Member
ChinaGuy said:
You seem to think Moa is the source of all communism. This is not valid. Communist economics is anything that the communists decide to employ. We have communists in China, and their economics is based on scientific rational thinking.
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If I'm a capitalist promoting communism, I'm a communist. What you think and say define you, not how you define yourself. Just like how every other brutal warlord slaughtering people at whims in darkest africa call their movement "democratic" or "republican" or "liberation" or whatever. THat is not what defines them. Their actions do.

EDIT: Agh, sorry friedricenspice...I should read replies before adding my own...
 
C

ChinaGuy

Banned Idiot
FriedRiceNSpice said:
Go look on Wikipedia what communist economics is.
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That's the trouble with capitalists, they like to tell everyone what to do, including how others can be communists. Regrettably, the Chinese communists cannot tolerate that. So they build ships like the 056 to deter anyone so aggressive. See, communism isn't a religion. Its ideals are not handed down like the divine stone tablets you see in hollywood movies. Besides, that's not very scientific or rational (both are major tenets of communism - perhaps you want to check the wiki to confirm) is it ?
 
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solarz

solarz

Brigadier
ChinaGuy said:
That's the trouble with capitalists, they like to tell everyone what to do, including how others can be communists. Regrettably, the Chinese communists cannot tolerate that. So they build ships like the 056 to deter anyone so aggressive. See, communism isn't a religion. Its ideals are not handed down like the divine stone tablets you see in hollywood movies. Besides, that's not very scientific or rational (both are major tenets of communism - perhaps you want to check the wiki to confirm) is it ?
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Maybe English is not your first language, but do you understand that there is an actual definition of Communism? It's the economic model espoused by Marx and Engels. It's not just whatever the Communist Party of China decides to do.

In fact, the CPC does not even refer to communism. Their current motto is "to build a socialism with Chinese characteristics".
 
C

ChinaGuy

Banned Idiot
solarz said:
Maybe English is not your first language, but do you understand that there is an actual definition of Communism? It's the economic model espoused by Marx and Engels. It's not just whatever the Communist Party of China decides to do.

In fact, the CPC does not even refer to communism. Their current motto is "to build a socialism with Chinese characteristics".
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No, English is not my first language. In practice communism is whatever the communists are doing. If the original definitions are no longer applicable, then those can be redefined by succeeding practitioners. For instance Newton derived his clockwork universe from scientific principles. Later, Einstein determined the clockwork universe was incorrect and the principles had to be changed to reflect the contemporary reality. Would you accuse Einstein as being unscientific because he violated Newton's scientific principles ? Likewise, you should not accuse the Chinese communists as being non-communist because they found better and successful ways for communism. As long as communism retains scientific thinking as its pillar, it can be improved and renewed as necessary, just like science.

CPC does refer to communism. The first C is Communist. Like it or not, the 056 is very much a fruit of communism.
 
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J

joshuatree

Captain
asif iqbal said:
i would like to see line-up from front to back of a

Type 056
Type 054A
Type 052C
Type 071 LPD
Type 903A
and in the background the ex-Varyag Carrier! That would be a awesome shot and we would get a great view of the real comparison of sizes of these ships with each other
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Another awesome shot would be a CBG configuration under full steam. :D


duskylim said:
Yes the new ship is definitely different, not only stealthier (thanks to the new stack covers) but also IMHO prettier - the older models have that taper that goes all the way around the bow and it looks terrible - rather like one of those old people who forgot their dentures and now their lips are curling around their gums! - yuck!

Lets hope the rest of them incorporate these mods, as to the 1st set of 4(?) - experience with the PLAN tells me they might never modify them to correct this - look at the 054's - which they never improved.
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I wish they get rid of those flag poles up front.

With the mods already being carried out on the next set of ships even before any of the first set of four being commissioned and operational experience being accrued, you have to wonder if they encountered issues/made revelations during build of the first set? Or were these mods all along in the pipeline but they couldn't finalize them to meet the delivery schedule?
 
Mysterre

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
joshuatree said:
With the mods already being carried out on the next set of ships even before any of the first set of four being commissioned and operational experience being accrued, you have to wonder if they encountered issues/made revelations during build of the first set? Or were these mods all along in the pipeline but they couldn't finalize them to meet the delivery schedule?
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Makes me wonder if the design was perhaps too hastily implemented for whatever reason. I've never seen new PLAN mods roll out while a previous mod was still being fitted out at pierside. Those changes are good, but they should have already been there from the beginning IMO.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
ChinaGuy said:
No, English is not my first language. In practice communism is whatever the communists are doing. If the original definitions are no longer applicable, then those can be redefined by succeeding practitioners. For instance Newton derived his clockwork universe from scientific principles. Later, Einstein determined the clockwork universe was incorrect and the principles had to be changed to reflect the contemporary reality. Would you accuse Einstein as being unscientific because he violated Newton's scientific principles ? Likewise, you should not accuse the Chinese communists as being non-communist because they found better and successful ways for communism. As long as communism retains scientific thinking as its pillar, it can be improved and renewed as necessary, just like science.

CPC does refer to communism. The first C is Communist. Like it or not, the 056 is very much a fruit of communism.
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You obviously have no clue what "scientific principles" mean to spout such nonsense. Einstein did not "violate Newton's scientific principles", as Newton did not create any scientific principles to begin with. Newton created a theory of physics, and Einstein's mathematic models expanded that theory. Einstein used the same mathematical principles as Newton to develop his theory of relativity.

Note that I said MATHEMATICAL principles, not "scientific". Scientific principles requires the observation of experimental data, which Einstein was unable to do. It was only through the work of later scientists that his theory of relativity was confirmed.

Honestly, I'm not surprised at your statement. The Chinese education system does a very poor job of teaching what the "scientific method" is, and Chinese media routinely abuses the term "scientific" as a buzzword for trustworthiness.

And no, just because the ruling party of China calls themselves "communist", does not mean everything they do is "communism". If Hu Jintao goes to take a crap, does that make the act of crapping a part of communism?

Finally, the CPC does not have "scientific thinking as its pillar". Economics is not a science. The word you're looking for is "rational".
 
C

ChinaGuy

Banned Idiot
solarz said:
You obviously have no clue what "scientific principles" mean to spout such nonsense. Einstein did not "violate Newton's scientific principles", as Newton did not create any scientific principles to begin with. Newton created a theory of physics, and Einstein's mathematic models expanded that theory. Einstein used the same mathematical principles as Newton to develop his theory of relativity.

Note that I said MATHEMATICAL principles, not "scientific". Scientific principles requires the observation of experimental data, which Einstein was unable to do. It was only through the work of later scientists that his theory of relativity was confirmed.

Honestly, I'm not surprised at your statement. The Chinese education system does a very poor job of teaching what the "scientific method" is, and Chinese media routinely abuses the term "scientific" as a buzzword for trustworthiness.

And no, just because the ruling party of China calls themselves "communist", does not mean everything they do is "communism". If Hu Jintao goes to take a crap, does that make the act of crapping a part of communism?

Finally, the CPC does not have "scientific thinking as its pillar". Economics is not a science. The word you're looking for is "rational".
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By your definition, since Carl Max never explicitly defined crapping in communism, therefore anyone who takes a dump can't be a communist. Well, Ok, you win the argument. If not communists, what are the Chinese communists ? Do you know of any authority that agrees with your labelling ? For instance, does CIA state the Chinese as non-communists ? Maybe the MI5/6 ?

The Chinese education system and scientific methods are good enough to produce the 056, and it's only a start. So don't be too quick to write them off.

Edit after the x-wing getting on my tail threatening to shoot me down with some chicken nuggets:

To save you some work, and according to the CIA, under the Government tab, China is a "Communist State". Can you beat CIA ? (final parting jab...):
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
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Mysterre

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
I think there are more true believers of Communism at any major American university than in the entire government of China.

BTW, is it perhaps time for a:

stayontopicp.jpg



:D
 
FriedRiceNSpice

FriedRiceNSpice

Captain
Maggern said:
EDIT: Agh, sorry friedricenspice...I should read replies before adding my own...
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Well its convenient that you restated this since my reply is on the previous page now and most people will probably miss it. Great minds think alike anyways ;)

That's the trouble with capitalists, they like to tell everyone what to do, including how others can be communists.
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This is funny, because by definition, a capitalist system involves rational individuals acting for their own best-interest, while, in practice, most communist systems involve the state telling each individual what to produce and what to do. Yes, Western, "democracies," do like to tell others what they can and cannot do, but there are as many socialist Western, "democracies," as capitalist ones. You clearly have no sense of the distinction between political ideologies and economic models, and obviously do not understand the definitions of communism nor capitalism.

Your Newton and Einstein analogy is complete crap. By your logic, Einstein's work would be considered, "Newtonian Physics 2.0."
 
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