055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Deino]

My point is especially related to your statement of being "more efficient"?!

 

[Deleted member 13312]

My point is especially related to your statement of being "more efficient"?!

That of course being as to the indication of how fast the Type 055's are being churned out at JNCX, the fabrication speed of the first one is impressive enough. But the 2nd ship's progress is certainty mind boggling to say the least if the latest photos are to be believed, on the other hand Dalian has yet to launch its first ship.
But of course, one can equally explain it as to the fact that Dalian is still working on the Type 001A, and that it is simultaneously building 2 Type 055. Which is why I put the caveat there. Then again JNCX's work load is just as heavy as Dalian's as well.

 

[Blitzo]

Well we can look at previous achievements by both shipyards for at least a rough measuring. JNCX has so far usually been the first to produce the newest type of destroyer for the PLAN at the time, moreover the shipyard has produced far more major surface combatants then Dalian in the last 20 years. Insofar Dalian only has 2 Type 51Cs and 5 Type 52Ds to its name AFAIK.
So this points to JNCX being more experienced in building destroyer type vessels, which can be transferred to the Type 055 construction as it share roughly the same configuration of all preceding destroyers.

Ummmm, DL has produced 3 052Ds that are in the water (either in late sea trials, sea trials or fitting out).
We have also positively identified 2 more 052Ds that are being built in the same dry dock as 2 055s.

If you are counting 5 052Ds to DL, then you are including the 2 052Ds that are still in a relatively early stage of construction/not launched.

Therefore, by that logic you should also count the two 055s DL has under construction (at a more complete stage of construction than the 2 052Ds btw), as being "to DL's name" as well.

 

[Blitzo]

That of course being as to the indication of how fast the Type 055's are being churned out at JNCX, the fabrication speed of the first one is impressive enough. But the 2nd ship's progress is certainty mind boggling to say the least if the latest photos are to be believed, on the other hand Dalian has yet to launch its first ship.
But of course, one can equally explain it as to the fact that Dalian is still working on the Type 001A, and that it is simultaneously building 2 Type 055. Which is why I put the caveat there. Then again JNCX's work load is just as heavy as Dalian's as well.

Please think carefully about what you're suggesting.

First, let's agree that work on JN's first 055 began earlier than DL's 055. We have photos showing when JN and DL 055 modules were first seen, and we can estimate that JN's first 055 module was seen about six months before DL's.

Next, is the big question about DL's "efficiency". Based on that, we must keep in mind DL is building two 055s at the same pace as each other simultaneously.
That means DL is focusing it's resources and efforts on building TWO 055s at the same time.

JN, on the other hand, is building 055s one by one, in sequence. Their resources are not divided into building two ships at the same time.

Let's do a thought experiment. Let's say it takes "100 resources" for a shipyard to launch one 055 per year if they are working on one 055 at a given stage of construction at a time.
And let's say JN and DL both have "100 resources", and each year they have 100 resources which replenish.

In the case of JN, they are only building one 055 at a given stage of construction at a time, meaning they can launch 1 055 per year, which is about right.

In the case of DL, they are building two 055s at the same time simultaneously, meaning their "100 resources" are split between two ships. It means each ship only gets "50 resources" per year, and it means it will take two years for each ship to have "100 resources" to be able to be launched.
BUT, when both ships are launched, the average number of 055s DL launches per year will be the same as JN -- it will be one ship per year.

The difference is that JN launches one ship per year, and DL launches two ships every two years.
But the average 055 launch rate will remain more or less the same.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Please think carefully about what you're suggesting.

First, let's agree that work on JN's first 055 began earlier than DL's 055. We have photos showing when JN and DL 055 modules were first seen, and we can estimate that JN's first 055 module was seen about six months before DL's.

Next, is the big question about DL's "efficiency". Based on that, we must keep in mind DL is building two 055s at the same pace as each other simultaneously.
That means DL is focusing it's resources and efforts on building TWO 055s at the same time.

JN, on the other hand, is building 055s one by one, in sequence. Their resources are not divided into building two ships at the same time.

Let's do a thought experiment. Let's say it takes "100 resources" for a shipyard to launch one 055 per year if they are working on one 055 at a given stage of construction at a time.
And let's say JN and DL both have "100 resources", and each year they have 100 resources which replenish.

In the case of JN, they are only building one 055 at a given stage of construction at a time, meaning they can launch 1 055 per year, which is about right.

In the case of DL, they are building two 055s at the same time simultaneously, meaning their "100 resources" are split between two ships. It means each ship only gets "50 resources" per year, and it means it will take two years for each ship to have "100 resources" to be able to be launched.
BUT, when both ships are launched, the average number of 055s DL launches per year will be the same as JN -- it will be one ship per year.

The difference is that JN launches one ship per year, and DL launches two ships every two years.
But the average 055 launch rate will remain more or less the same.

Which is why in my statement I put the words "Caveat" as in another possible explanation. I thought I have put that in clearly.

 

[Blitzo]

That of course being as to the indication of how fast the Type 055's are being churned out at JNCX, the fabrication speed of the first one is impressive enough. But the 2nd ship's progress is certainty mind boggling to say the least if the latest photos are to be believed, on the other hand Dalian has yet to launch its first ship.
But of course, one can equally explain it as to the fact that Dalian is still working on the Type 001A, and that it is simultaneously building 2 Type 055. Which is why I put the caveat there. Then again JNCX's work load is just as heavy as Dalian's as well.

Just for the record, I actually do agree with you a little, in that I do believe JN is currently probably slightly better than DL, with more capacity, probably being more efficient and more experienced as well.

However, using 055 construction/launches as the premise for that conclusion is silly because of the vastly different ways in which JN and DL are respectively building their 055s and the fact that JN started work on its first 055 earlier than DL.

When we accept that work on DL's first 055 began later than JN's, and considering DL is building two 055s at the same pace as each other simultaneously whereas JN builds 055s one by one sequentially, it makes complete sense that DL has yet to launch a single 055 and JN has launched two 055s.

 

[Deleted member 13312]

Ummmm, DL has produced 3 052Ds that are in the water (either in late sea trials, sea trials or fitting out).
We have also positively identified 2 more 052Ds that are being built in the same dry dock as 2 055s.

If you are counting 5 052Ds to DL, then you are including the 2 052Ds that are still in a relatively early stage of construction/not launched.

Therefore, by that logic you should also count the two 055s DL has under construction (at a more complete stage of construction than the 2 052Ds btw), as being "to DL's name" as well.

Thanks for the clarification, but I also must point out that there is also a clear difference in stages of completion of the Type 055s in both Shanghai and Dalian respectively.

 

[Blitzo]

Thanks for the clarification, but I also must point out that there is also a clear difference in stages of completion of the Type 055s in both Shanghai and Dalian respectively.

???

I have no idea what you are talking about.

DL has yet to launch their two 055s. JN has launched two 055s, one yesterday, and one last year in June.

We saw JN's first modules for its first 055 in about June 2016.
We saw DL's first modules for its first two 055s in about Dec 2016.


Why on earth do you think it would be reasonable to expect JN and DL's 055s to be at similar stages of completion???

 

[Dante80]

Do we have any idea on when JN started working (showing modules at least) on the second 055?

 

[Blitzo]

Do we have any idea on when JN started working (showing modules at least) on the second 055?

The earliest I can remember was seeing a module for unit 2 in October 2016 on satellite photo