055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

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Iron Man

Major
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I have concerns about the physics involved in vertical launch for the canister geometry of a diagonally parititioned square. Maybe they go with canisters that have enclosed circular tubes for the missile instead, but I really don’t think we have any evidence to say that dual packing is a real thing.
We are only talking about possibilities so far, so just showing that it could theoretically be done is always the first step. As for the physics I'm not sure what concerns you need to have about (minimally) diagonally partitioned VL cells. The only real concern here is whether the red squares have enough surface area to adequately vent the exhaust from each missile. The ducting could easily be designed so that each missile uses both vents. Or they could just be standard cold-launched.

UVLS HHQ-9 Packing.png
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
We are only talking about possibilities so far, so just showing that it could theoretically be done is always the first step. As for the physics I'm not sure what concerns you need to have about (minimally) diagonally partitioned VL cells. The only real concern here is whether the red squares have enough surface area to adequately vent the exhaust from each missile. The ducting could easily be designed so that each missile uses both vents.

View attachment 44143
Both cold and hot launch methods need to sort out the gas dynamics within the canister environment, and changing the container geometry will affect this.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
Both cold and hot launch methods need to sort out the gas dynamics within the canister environment, and changing the container geometry will affect this.
Yes, in this case a small corner is clipped off. I'm not overly concerned that the "gas dynamics" would be so dramatically changed as to render both hot and cold launch impossible. If you're concerned about cold launch the other free corner could be identically clipped so as to make the entire cross section symmetrical, though I'm not sure even this simple step is necessary. Hot launch seems to be even less of a concern as to the gas distribution. Regardless both methods could just utilize a simple rail, making any tail gas dynamics even less of an issue.
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Yes, in this case a small corner is clipped off. I'm not overly concerned that the "gas dynamics" would be so dramatically changed as to render both hot and cold launch impossible. If you're concerned about cold launch the other free corner could be identically clipped so as to make the entire cross section symmetrical, though I'm not sure even this simple step is necessary. Hot launch seems to be even less of a concern as to the gas distribution. Regardless both methods could just utilize a simple rail, making any tail gas dynamics even less of an issue.
Symmetry isn’t the problem. Anyways, I don’t think this concern is prohibitive, but I imagine it’s not a trivial question either.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
I have concerns about the physics involved in vertical launch for the canister geometry of a diagonally parititioned square. Maybe they go with canisters that have enclosed circular tubes for the missile instead, but I really don’t think we have any evidence to say that dual packing is a real thing.

I respect your concerns .... but it doesn't mean it can't be done

To me it is perfectly fine .. mind you PLAN just had UVLS from 052D which is only a few years ago (5 years ? ) ... the US VLS Mk-41 has been around for very long time but the size is very small compared to PLAN, so MK-41 is not really suited for dual-packing

I believe the dual-packed configuration will happen soon within PLAN ... time will tell
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
I respect your concerns .... but it doesn't mean it can't be done

To me it is perfectly fine .. mind you PLAN just had UVLS from 052D which is only a few years ago (5 years ? ) ... the US VLS Mk-41 has been around for very long time but the size is very small compared to PLAN, so MK-41 is not really suited for dual-packing

I believe the dual-packed configuration will happen soon within PLAN ... time will tell
I’m sure it could be done. Doesn’t mean that it will be though. The jury’s still out on this idea.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
Symmetry isn’t the problem. Anyways, I don’t think this concern is prohibitive, but I imagine it’s not a trivial question either.
The use of a rail for cold launch could easily render a change in cell cross section irrelevant. Outside the use of a rail, via use of a clipped corner on the opposite side of the diagonal the pressure on any two opposite sides of the missile would be identical which would then ensure a straight vertical exit for the missile as the gas expands inside the cell. As for hot launch, they would just need to pay attention to potential new hotspots in the cell walls, a problem also easily solved.
 
We are only talking about possibilities so far, so just showing that it could theoretically be done is always the first step. As for the physics I'm not sure what concerns you need to have about (minimally) diagonally partitioned VL cells. The only real concern here is whether the red squares have enough surface area to adequately vent the exhaust from each missile. The ducting could easily be designed so that each missile uses both vents. Or they could just be standard cold-launched.

View attachment 44143
LOL seeing you're still on it: in a unit square Dec 11, 2017 each of your red squares would have an area of (sqrt(2)-1)^2, which is about 0.17 (p*p, in magenta, below);
the area of an orange circle below is \pi*(1.5-sqrt(2)), which is about 0.27, so
2*0.27+2*0.17, about 88% of the total area, could theoretically be used for missiles' bodies and vents:
48d2a7bb5de5129e34bb08a8cec90648.jpg
(Dec 11, 2017 I might've simplified "r" to (1 - sqrt(2)/2), but I just didn't)
 
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Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
LOL seeing you're still on it: in a unit square Dec 11, 2017 each of your red squares would have an area of (sqrt(2)-1)^2, which is about 0.17 (p*p, in magenta, below);
the area of an orange circle below is \pi*(1.5-sqrt(2)), which is about 0.27, so
2*0.27+2*0.17, about 88% of the total area, could theoretically be used for missiles' bodies and vents:
48d2a7bb5de5129e34bb08a8cec90648.jpg
(Dec 11, 2017 I might've simplified "r" to (1 - sqrt(2)/2), but I just didn't)
You forgot that r +/- p would have to be smaller in actuality due to limitations like fins and spacers or rails.
 
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