055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Klon]

As for Klon's question -- it could equally refer to a generic next generation destroyer or the next 055 variant that everyone expects to be built in due time. Or it can even refer to the ever continuing quest to continue R&D and modernization of capabilities in line with the advancement of worldwide trends and competitors.
The point is that 055 as we see it is merely the beginning and not the end.

Of course many answers are possible, the question is which is correct.

 

[Blitzo]

Of course many answers are possible, the question is which is correct.

Well, based on what is written, do we think it is more likely that he is talking about a specific model of destroyer in the future that will be the most advanced in the world -- or merely saying that there will be future destroyers that are very advanced, that 055 is a stepping stone to?


I think the latter is far more likely than the former.... mostly because the title of "world's most advanced destroyer" is empty without knowing what timespan we're comparing it to and how long it will be the "most advanced," making it difficult to narrow it down to a specific future potential destroyer class.



As you mention, what 星海 wrote was in response to people's complaints about 055's VLS count at the time -- i.e.: that the primary subject of the passage is 055, and its role as a beginning for future classes to build on.
There is nothing to indicate a reference to a specific class of future destroyer; no designation, no timespan, no simple reasoning for why it deserves being called "world's most advanced" etc. Only that there will be future destroyer classes, which we have known since well before 055 was first launched.

 

[Klon]

Well, based on what is written, do we think it is more likely that he is talking about a specific model of destroyer in the future that will be the most advanced in the world -- or merely saying that there will be future destroyers that are very advanced, that 055 is a stepping stone to?


I think the latter is far more likely than the former.... mostly because the title of "world's most advanced destroyer" is empty without knowing what timespan we're comparing it to and how long it will be the "most advanced," making it difficult to narrow it down to a specific future potential destroyer class.



As you mention, what 星海 wrote was in response to people's complaints about 055's VLS count at the time -- i.e.: that the primary subject of the passage is 055, and its role as a beginning for future classes to build on.
There is nothing to indicate a reference to a specific class of future destroyer; no designation, no timespan, no simple reasoning for why it deserves being called "world's most advanced" etc. Only that there will be future destroyer classes, which we have known since well before 055 was first launched.

The sentence was in quotes, so he was relaying someone else's words (unless he was quoting himself), which is why I asked for the source of the statement.
As for the rest, I agree that it seems early to talk about a next generation class. However, my best attempt at reading and interpreting the sentence is that a new class, to be the "world's most advanced destroyer," is at least planned. Obviously it's a translation so there's more room for error.
So, is the origin of the quote known and has anything been heard about a new destroyer?

 

[Blitzo]

The sentence was in quotes, so he was relaying someone else's words (unless he was quoting himself), which is why I asked for the source of the statement.
As for the rest, I agree that it seems early to talk about a next generation class. However, my best attempt at reading and interpreting the sentence is that a new class, to be the "world's most advanced destroyer," is at least planned. Obviously it's a translation so there's more room for error.
So, is the origin of the quote known and has anything been heard about a new destroyer?

Tbh it's not that early to talk about a succeeding destroyer class after 055 -- I think most of us expect 055 to be succeeded by an "055A" in due time, perhaps as early as 2020. IEPS is expected at this stage.

But whether 055A will be the "most advanced destroyer" by that time is another matter -- how do we measure how "advanced" it is with other classes that may exist in that time?

That is why I think it doesn't tell us anything which we didn't already know -- i.e.: that the current 055 we see will be succeeded in due time by new classes of destroyers, and depending on when they emerge one or more of them might happen to be the world's "most advanced"... but I don't see any reason to think the statement is referring to any specific future class of destroyer that will be the "most advanced".





And I have no idea what the origin of the quote is. I assume xinghai's post was made over on PDF? I don't frequent that forum very much.

 

[Klon]

Tbh it's not that early to talk about a succeeding destroyer class after 055 -- I think most of us expect 055 to be succeeded by an "055A" in due time, perhaps as early as 2020. IEPS is expected at this stage.

But whether 055A will be the "most advanced destroyer" by that time is another matter -- how do we measure how "advanced" it is with other classes that may exist in that time?

Throughout this I took the next class of destroyers to be something unrelated to 055, both from the quote and my own feeling that 055A is closer to a variant.
I guess it could also mean a long march through 055 variants.
Yes, it was posted on PDF.

 

[Iron Man]

As you mention, what 星海 wrote was in response to people's complaints about 055's VLS count at the time -- i.e.: that the primary subject of the passage is 055, and its role as a beginning for future classes to build on.

I think if/when a future "055A" variant rolls out, we may actually see 128 VL cells (or possibly even 144 VL cells). I speculate this based on the fact that the Type 45's two WR-21 GT prime movers only output 25.2MW each and yet the Daring is able to make >30 knots. Granted the 055 is half again as large, but it also has 6 GT generators that could themselves be further upgraded. If it is possible to delete the aft pair of QC-280s, you would not only create more space for the aft VLS bank but also for additional efficiency multipliers like exhaust heat recovery and compressor intercooling that would further drive up the power output of the remaining pair of QC-280s. I think it's possible this may be part of the original design. The somewhat curious choice of 112 cells instead of 128 and the unique transmission pairing arrangement of the 055 IMO lends credence to this possibility.

 

[Blitzo]

Throughout this I took the next class of destroyers to be something unrelated to 055, both from the quote and my own feeling that 055A is closer to a variant.
I guess it could also mean a long march through 055 variants.
Yes, it was posted on PDF.

Oh I see.

Well, ships like 052, 052B, 052C, 052D are all arguably "variants" of each other, but I consider them to be separate classes of their own as well.
In the same way as how the Spruance class, Kidd class, and Tico class could all be argued to be based on the same hull and powerplant configuration but were all separate classes of their own.


So I expect the 055 hull to have a fairly decent variant/class run. I look at the evolution of the original 052 to the 052D, and I look at where the 055 is today and where it can evolve to in future.


I'm sure in time the 055 hull and variants will be succeeded by an entirely new hull and concept, but that probably won't be for a while.

 

[Blitzo]

I think if/when a future "055A" variant rolls out, we may actually see 128 VL cells (or possibly even 144 VL cells). I speculate this based on the fact that the Type 45's two WR-21 GT prime movers only output 25.2MW each and yet the Daring is able to make >30 knots. Granted the 055 is half again as large, but it also has 6 GT generators that could themselves be further upgraded. If it is possible to delete the aft pair of QC-280s, you would not only create more space for the aft VLS bank but also for additional efficiency multipliers like exhaust heat recovery and compressor intercooling that would further drive up the power output of the remaining pair of QC-280s. I think it's possible this may be part of the original design. The somewhat curious choice of 112 cells instead of 128 and the unique transmission pairing arrangement of the 055 IMO lends credence to this possibility.

It's possible future 055 variants will have more VLS, definitely, but I think 112 VLS cells in 055 isn't too curious.
Discussion about the VLS count seems to have the tone that 112 is a compromise or some sort of reduction from 128 VLS, but I'm not sure if we had any reason to think the Navy's original requirements for 055 was for 128 VLS to begin with?

For all we know the Navy's original requirements may have been 112 VLS.

 

[latenlazy]

It's possible future 055 variants will have more VLS, definitely, but I think 112 VLS cells in 055 isn't too curious.
Discussion about the VLS count seems to have the tone that 112 is a compromise or some sort of reduction from 128 VLS, but I'm not sure if we had any reason to think the Navy's original requirements for 055 was for 128 VLS to begin with?

For all we know the Navy's original requirements may have been 112 VLS.

It seems, from early leaks when the class was still under planning, 128 VLS was part of the discussion, but they need not have reached 112 as a compromise number.

 

[Blitzo]

It seems, from early leaks when the class was still under planning, 128 VLS was part of the discussion, but they need not have reached 112 as a compromise number.

I think we had a similar discussion about this back on CDF -- I think we agreed that the early big shrimp rumours we had about 055 said 128 VLS once or twice, but we didn't know if that was part of their own assumptions/projections for what the ship would end up looking like vs conveying any access to internal information.

After all there were some other initial projections that also were wrong, like no. of CIWS platforms, no rotating VSR etc