055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

[Blitzo]

it seems the length of 32 VLS on 052D is significantly longer than the Burkes'.

The ratio of length to width is 1.1 for Burke and 1.46 for 052D! ... how could it be ? ..... I thought the VLS cell is or almost square ?

He measured the 052D's front 32 VLS block, which arranges it transverse to the ship, whereas burke arranges it longitudinally.
The 052D's aft 32 VLS block is longitudinal as well, so really it's 5.7m x 8.3m for 052D versus 5.8m x 6.4m for burke...

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for better or worse, new chinese vls cell is bigger than mk41. there is simply no way for a ship of same tonnage to carry the same number of such larger vls cells without sacrificing something else.

Agreed -- although it is an interesting to consider, say how much more a ship must displace, say a flight ii burke, if it were installed with the CCL VLS rather than Mk 41, while keeping everything else the same.

while right now it may not seem like the extra size of vls cells offer anything more than mk41 system does, in the future there may come a point where it will pay off.

bigger cells may mean cruise missiles of better characteristics. Or if the current cruise missile tech is lacking, then with a larger missile one can match the performance of slightly smaller western cruise missiles.
Same could be said about long range SAMs. Matching performance today with potentially lacking tech and possibly better performance in 10-20 years. Already hhq9 offers a flight profile that sm-2 can't hope to reach. They're different classes of SAM missiles, even if their ranges are on paper similar. What's more, the design approach that hhq9 uses is followed by reworking of the standard family into sm-6 and next gen sm-3 missiles.
Again, bigger cells may mean quadpacking of small missiles that while lacking in tech can be equal in performance to essm. And in the near future, as tech levels with western world, even better perfomance may be achieved from those larger missiles.

Also, completely new classes of missiles may be stored in such larger vls cells. mk41 cells can't hope to handle some medium sized hypersonic antiship or cruise missile. Nor some sort of 500-1000 km ranged ballistic missile. Largest variant of chinse VLS may indeed be there partly because of such future class of missiles. We may not know about them today, but something like that could be in development as we speak. Also, various kinds of reconeissance drones launched by missiles could be packed inside a vls cell, and so on.

Mk 57's cell dimensions aren't actually that much greater than Mk 41 (I forget the numbers, but I believe it is the case), and the CCL VLS cell is actually bigger than Mk 57 and 41 both. From what I've read, what Mk 57 offers is greater venting capacity, allowing bigger missiles to be fire out (as larger missiles naturally have larger exhausts which the old Mk 41 hot launch style cannot withstand).

The CCL VLS combines a larger cell dimension with the capability to cold launch missiles, thus avoiding the restrictions of exhaust volume altogether, as the booster ignites in the air. Considering the 052C's HHQ-9 is 1.3 tons, the tomahawk is 1.6 tons with booster, SM-3 is 1.5 tons, we may well see 052D's CCL VLS featuring cold launch cells for large missiles and hot launch for quadpacked and medium/short range missiles.

CCL VLS also offers the benefit that you do not theoretically need to fit them into restricting "modules" of 8 or however many, as hot launch cells require, as each cell has its own self contained venting system. You could fit a couple of the 3.3m deep cells onto an FAC even, and quad pack them with HQ-17/barak style missiles. Or fit an OPV with two cells of quad packed DK-10s, giving it an active homing 50 km SAM.
If PLAN plays its cards right, it could have one of the world's most versatile VLS in service.

 

[antiterror13]

deleted

 

[Totoro]

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Here it says empty mk57 four cell module weighs some 15 tons. (mk41 8 cell module is some 500 kg lighter) It's 7,8 meters high, 4,25 meters long, 2,16 meters wide.
Each cell is 719 cm long and 71 cm wide. mk41 was around 59 cm wide, i think. So it's a bit closer to mk41 in width than to chinese vls, but really it's almost right in the middle.

If one would be to put 2 four cell modules next to each other one'd get 4,25 by 4,32 meter wide block. 8 cell mk41 is 2,61 m by 3,43 m. One can see mk57 takes up way more space. Actually, compared with that, chinese vls isn't even so big. though we don't have any concrete figures, we have images suggesting no more than 3*4 meter 8 cell module. Perhaps even ten cm less in every dimension.

if burke had chinese vls installed, without using any more deck area than allocated as it is, one couldn't fit more than two 8 cell modules in the front (there'd be space left around them but not enough to put another 8 cell module) and four such modules in the back. 48 cells?

if one made a (in my opinion) much more versatile 4 cell block of chinese vls, measuring roughly, 4 by 1,6 meters, one could fit on the burke five such modules in the front and nine more in the back. thats 14 four cell modules with very little space being wasted compared with the current burke layout. still, it'd just be 56 cells.

Using a two cell module could improve situation a bit more but one still wouldn't get over 70 cells, let alone to 96.

I just hope chinese will drop the 8 cell modules at some point, it really kills the overall idea behind having self contained vls cells.

That being said, when i look at mk57, i cant understand why they need over 2 meters of width for a 4 cell module which has the exhaust added longitudinally, not to the side of the cell row, as in mk41. such 4 cell module should not have to take much more than a meter, certainly under meter and a half in width.

 

[FarkTypeSoldier]

Bringing the thread back on topic...

there's a thought that 055 may end up sharing some design features like type 45, namely the mast (probably won't have SAMPSON though -- may have a different surface search radar up there).

here's a badly PSed type 45 featuring some parts we might expect on 055

View attachment 8076

Here's another interpretation of 055, using the 052d image.

What isn't visible in the image is the added width of the hull. That might enable to rearange the components in the way envisioned in this image.

Twin hangars, VLS bay between them. Rear mast for some sort of UHF radar. It might be useful if the mast is off center longitudinal axis, and the frontal smokestack follows that arrangement, only offset in the other direction. That also isn't really shown in this image.

Another solution would be to keep the rear mast centered but to rearange the frontal smokestack so its split in two sections, each going offset of the center and to the edge of the ship's deck.

I do believe there'd still be room for a RAM sort of ciws between the hangars, probably moved a bit forward, so it doesn't interfere with the repositioned rear VLS bay.

It should be perfectly possible to fit a 32-40 cell bay in the rear, and in the front, thanks to the larger width of ship and ever so slightly moved main superstructure to the rear, at least 48 cells. 80-88 cells of such large VLS system (lets keep in mind mk41 has smaller cells than new chinese system) is plenty and offers lots of combinations.

Hey there.. Thanks for bringing back the thread to 055

 

[FarkTypeSoldier]

Some more speculations of future PLA forces new weapons over at this

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It mentions that the Type 055 is a 12,000 ton missile guided destroyer to be built (soon) by Jiangnan Heavy Industries! Of course, do read it as a pleasure reading, until the real thing roll out.

 

[franco-russe]

For quite some time, all I have seen indicates that Type 055 will be 12,000 tons (and 2 x 64 VLS).

What does it say about the 40,000 ton auxiliary from Guangzhou? And the 50,000 ton landing ship??

 

[no_name]

The auxiliary is due to begin construction soon but the shipyard assigned is still unconfirmed.

The LHA is still under research/study.

 

[asif iqbal]

For quite some time, all I have seen indicates that Type 055 will be 12,000 tons (and 2 x 64 VLS).

What does it say about the 40,000 ton auxiliary from Guangzhou? And the 50,000 ton landing ship??

Those are big numbers

Would be nice if we had some images of these units

 

[Preux]

'Construction to commence soon' and 'programme under R&D' respectively.

 

[franco-russe]

Thanks.

I can see that item 9 is to be built by广船, that is Guangzhou Shipbuilding International (GSI), as item 7 carrier Type 001A is to be built at Dalian.

A bit of research evealed that综合补给舰 is a ”complex supply ship” or AOR (should warm asif iqbal’s heart).