asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
By78 you cant do such a calculation you are scaling up and the weight density distribution will not be the same
055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread
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I think he was just demonstrating that it is very possible for 055 to displace 12,000 tons. It wasn't meant to be exhaustive at all.
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Also I think its worth reminding the 12,000 ton number is supposedly for standard displacement rather than full.
by78
General
Actually, I can make the rough 'eureka' assumption, reasonably assuming that the 055 will have a hull made of mostly steel (not aluminum or composites or unobtainium), four gas turbines (two more than 052D), much larger superstructures, considerably greater ammo magazines, etc.
Considering 052D is probably as 'dense' as its hull allows, a comparison with the Burke IIA is perhaps more reasonable, or if you prefer, the balance is to be struck somewhere between the 'density' of the Burke IIA and that of 052D.
Regardless which 'density' value you choose, based on the current state of construction and material technologies, a 12,000-ton displacement, fully loaded or not, is entirely within the realm of possibility. Full stop.
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Also, if 055 is really meant to have onboard Z-18s, the flight deck will likely be quite large.
Super Frelon is a 23m long helicopter, and so the flight deck will need to be meaningfully larger too.
For instance, 903 AORs have a flight deck around 35m long! (wikipedia lists it as 178.5m long, the flight deck is about 1/5 of its length, do the maths)
With that in mind, here's a notional 055 with a 35m long flight deck. Note this is having the same superstructure to bow distance as 052D (the real thing may have a longer bow). I also guesstimate the freeboard (waterline to upper deck), which I estimate will be larger than 052D, giving it a greater "superstructure to deck" height.
I've also highlighted 052D in blue, notional 055 in red. It's not wholly accurate but you get the gist of it.
Super Frelon is a 23m long helicopter, and so the flight deck will need to be meaningfully larger too.
For instance, 903 AORs have a flight deck around 35m long! (wikipedia lists it as 178.5m long, the flight deck is about 1/5 of its length, do the maths)
With that in mind, here's a notional 055 with a 35m long flight deck. Note this is having the same superstructure to bow distance as 052D (the real thing may have a longer bow). I also guesstimate the freeboard (waterline to upper deck), which I estimate will be larger than 052D, giving it a greater "superstructure to deck" height.
I've also highlighted 052D in blue, notional 055 in red. It's not wholly accurate but you get the gist of it.
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GREAT work on these comparisons, Bltizo!
Really gives one a flavor for the upcoming vessel.
I am excited to see the hull of the first one being built somewhere on the ways in China!
That ship would be huge. 187x21+ meters would be even bigger than the 186 x 20,8 meters of the slava cruisers (12500t).
It assumes that the flight deck will have 35 meters, and at this point we dont know what will be its dimension. However someone said here that that hangar is too small for the z-18. Assuming that what we see in the mockup is the upper deck, it seems small, although that is something that we wont know for sure until building starts. Its a rude mockup afterall.
Regarding the question of the freeboard and drought, i agree that a bigger ship should have a bigger freeboard and drought, but im no expert on this and someone more knowledged could answer with more certainty.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Yes on that basis yes agreed I don't think there is any question that the Type 055 Cruiser will be a heavy load and can easily match the 12,000 ton weight which seems to have always been the number kicking around, certainly we can't say it's not going to be 12,000 tons plus
A 12,000 ton warship is a seriously power projection tool and a huge statement and no ship to be messed around with I wonder what will be the VLS count, a very good move by PLAN to go big and bad
Judging by mock ups and time lines maybe we will see some ground with regards to this ship possibly next year now that would be exciting
Can anyone enlighten me and tell me why they need so much space there? I could only understand the move to do it if they need some extra space and use railguns and laser weapons. Then you would need lots of electricity to run those things. Other than that I can't see any other reasonable idea behind making it 'big&bad' (and expensive like hell I assume). And VLS count - I always had problems with 'more VLS = better ship' when nowadays you need only one (or two) missile hit to put effectively enemy ship out of action...
That's cool if there would be a 'Chinese school' to the Chinese warship building programs. Like in the old times pre WWII when you had US school, British school, Japanese school etc and each one of them usually put much more emphasis on one thing in comparision to other schools. Now it's more or less uniform so that a certain dimensions of the ship are enough to stand as a 'platform' for specialised tasks and they rarely go out of 10-15% difference in the displacement all around the world.
So, what's behind it? It's big only to be big and look badass? I doubt that as that would be the most dumb way to do things. What's aboard that needs so much space? Any ideas?
That's cool if there would be a 'Chinese school' to the Chinese warship building programs. Like in the old times pre WWII when you had US school, British school, Japanese school etc and each one of them usually put much more emphasis on one thing in comparision to other schools. Now it's more or less uniform so that a certain dimensions of the ship are enough to stand as a 'platform' for specialised tasks and they rarely go out of 10-15% difference in the displacement all around the world.
So, what's behind it? It's big only to be big and look badass? I doubt that as that would be the most dumb way to do things. What's aboard that needs so much space? Any ideas?
Personally I may have overestimated the hangar deck length a little. I doubt it will have a deck as long as 35m. Maybe 25-30m is more likely. That said, that is still 177m-182m long. Also, 055 may well have a beam greater than 21m up to 23m.
And yes, such a ship would be larger than Slava. pop3 mentioned a while ago that 055 has a standard displacement of 12,000 tons, meaning it may well have 13,000+ tons of full displacement.
I'm not sure who said the hangar was too small -- there were some calculations regarding its length a while ago, and it should be large enough to accommodate the length of a folded Z-18 (17.07m). Rough calculations give me about 23m long for the hangar structure on the mock up, more than enough room for twin hangars as well as enclosed boat davits to fit. Of course, the hangar mock up is not "tall" enough for Z-18 as it is, but that's simply because the metal deck the mock up is sitting on is not representative of actual deck level. If you look at my outline, my flight deck/hull deck level is lower than the mock up deck level, because the latter is almost certainly not representative of the former.
And yes, larger ships of the same type generally have larger freeboard and draft, usually the former, but not always the latter.
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