055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Can anyone enlighten me and tell me why they need so much space there? I could only understand the move to do it if they need some extra space and use railguns and laser weapons. Then you would need lots of electricity to run those things. Other than that I can't see any other reasonable idea behind making it 'big&bad' (and expensive like hell I assume). And VLS count - I always had problems with 'more VLS = better ship' when nowadays you need only one (or two) missile hit to put effectively enemy ship out of action...

That's cool if there would be a 'Chinese school' to the Chinese warship building programs. Like in the old times pre WWII when you had US school, British school, Japanese school etc and each one of them usually put much more emphasis on one thing in comparision to other schools. Now it's more or less uniform so that a certain dimensions of the ship are enough to stand as a 'platform' for specialised tasks and they rarely go out of 10-15% difference in the displacement all around the world.

So, what's behind it? It's big only to be big and look badass? I doubt that as that would be the most dumb way to do things. What's aboard that needs so much space? Any ideas?

Well like you said, having extra space for electricity generation for future weapons is probably a big part of it. I doubt the initial 055 variant will have IEPS, but later variants almost certainly will, and will thus have the capacity to be refitted or even built with rail guns and lasers.
More generally, having extra space means more growth potential overall. That is a big problem cited with the flight III burke, namely that they are increasingly squeezing too many things on a hull that's not getting any bigger. PLAN reached its limit with the 052 hull on the 052D, so they're taking the long view with a hull that is now much bigger.

Of course a larger hull is also driven for a need in capability as well. PLAN's VLS is quite large, so they need a reasonably large ship to be able to carry anywhere upwards of ~100 such cells. PLAN may also be interested in fielding a larger, more capable ASW helicopter (Z-18FQ) which also necessitates a bigger flight deck, hangar. Internals are also likely to be more spacious and automated. Crew size of such a vessel will likely not exceed the crew for an older generation DDG, yet there will likely be better accommodation for crew as well. A ship of this size will also likely have an enhanced CIC and room for a flag officer and their staff, to fit the profile as a command ship. PLAN also seems quite ambitious in giving it a very advanced radar capability in the form of multiple phased array radars that are all more specialized in their roles than one another, suiting its position as an air (and potentially space) defense ship first and foremost

Combine all those demands, with current and near term future technology, and it's hard not to get a ship of around 055's projected displacement.
So it is definitely capability needs that is driving size, rather than the other way around.

Some USN commentators have also said that the Flight III burke should have been replaced by a 12,000 ton new hull design as well. I also suspect the USN's future main surface combatant programme will lead to a ship of similar displacement to 055.
Russia is also supposedly developing a new DDG of similar dimensions and displacement.

Also, it isn't that unique for the PLAN to be confident enough to finally go out on their own and put out demands for themselves. They've reached a capability level where they can do it, and their industry is there, so why not? After all, the USN is still the most demanding customer with 60+ 9,000 ton destroyers in service, when for so many years the only other navies that had ships of that weight class were the Soviet/Russian navy and then later the JMSDF.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I spent effort on this over at CDF so I thought I may as well cross post it.

Basically, a rendition of hangar structure arrangement.
Space for a pair of Z-18s with about 0.5m clearance all round and between the two choppers. On either side there is room for boat davits (estimated to be 3m wide), giving more than enough room to fit it all in even using a conservative beam estimate like 20m.

Fmxbzbt.png


MCIYAm2.png



And yeah, GE has updated the wuhan site. 20m measured beam, but actual ship will likely have 1-3m wider due to the mock up platform being higher than the actual ship's hull deck height.

cLMVyWV.jpg
 

by78

General
»Ø¸´: Type 055 DDG - PLAN's Next Generation Destroyer Thread

A new cruise missile named CX-1. Does anyone know the specs on this thing?

Quite a substantial missile with three sets of (control) fins. To my untrained eyes, it looks larger than the P-800 Oniks and maybe as long as the P-700 Shipwreck. The length indicates both a substantial range and warhead. Likely ramjet powered and supersonic throughout its flight profile. The shock cone is sharper than the P-800's and more closely resembles that of the P-700.

I wonder if the 055 is an intended launch platform, and if so, whether this missile can fit inside the universal VLS onboard the 055...

P.S. Apologies for posting this here when I had already opened a dedicated thread for it. But I thought this deserves a mention here.

15723621025_51b868def6_o.jpg


15723023695_161ac655c9_o.jpg



(1600x1195)
15537591508_5837362619_o.jpg
 
Last edited:

kroko

Senior Member
And yeah, GE has updated the wuhan site. 20m measured beam, but actual ship will likely have 1-3m wider due to the mock up platform being higher than the actual ship's hull deck height.

That doesnt make sense. Quite the contrary is true, The higher it is, the closer it will appear to the satellite observer (we), making it to look bigger than it actually is. I dont know if it makes much difference in the case of GE photo, but it wont be bigger than those 20 meters.
 

by78

General
»Ø¸´: Re: Type 055 DDG - PLAN's Next Generation Destroyer Thread

That doesnt make sense. Quite the contrary is true, The higher it is, the closer it will appear to the satellite observer (we), making it to look bigger than it actually is. I dont know if it makes much difference in the case of GE photo, but it wont be bigger than those 20 meters.

Kroko, let's try this:

1) Draw an
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(as pictured in the link).

2) Now draw a line parallel to AD that also intersects both AB and CD. Let's assign the letter p to the intersection between the said line and AB and assign the letter q to the intersection between the said line and CD. The line section between p and q shall henceforth be called pq.

3) Now, ask yourself this: Is pq longer or shorter than AD? Hint: it should be shorter.

Now, imagine AD represents 055's beam at the full deck line and pq represents the beam of the test apparatus.

Let me phrase this another way: AD is to 055's beam what pq is to the width of the test apparatus.

Now go back and re-read Bltizo's comment. Do you understand it now?

======================================================================

Kroko, let me ask you a couple of serious questions, and please answer them truthfully: how old are you, and what is your educational background?
 
Last edited:

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
That doesnt make sense. Quite the contrary is true, The higher it is, the closer it will appear to the satellite observer (we), making it to look bigger than it actually is. I dont know if it makes much difference in the case of GE photo, but it wont be bigger than those 20 meters.

Sigh. Look, the distance we are measuring is the width of the platform on which the mock up sits. That width is smaller than the actual hull deck beam because it sits higher than the actual hull deck and will thus be narrower. By78's explanation is a succint one too.

I know you're skeptical that this ship will have the displacement that it is rumoured to have, but come on...
 

no_name

Colonel
Re: »Ø¸´: Type 055 DDG - PLAN's Next Generation Destroyer Thread

A new cruise missile named CX-1. Does anyone know the specs on this thing?

Quite a substantial missile with three sets of (control) fins. To my untrained eyes, it looks larger than the P-800 Oniks and maybe as long as the P-700 Shipwreck. The length indicates both a substantial range and warhead. Likely ramjet powered and supersonic throughout its flight profile. The shock cone is sharper than the P-800's and more closely resembles that of the P-700.

I wonder if the 055 is an intended launch platform, and if so, whether this missile can fit inside the universal VLS onboard the 055...

Seems to be two stages, the lower being a booster stage. The 055 VLS is about 9m deep max, how long is this thing?
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
The missile is definitely not as big as shipwreck. Probably onyx sized, maybe a little smaller even.

Chances are it will have similar specs, or at least the export version will.
 

kroko

Senior Member
Sigh. Look, the distance we are measuring is the width of the platform on which the mock up sits. That width is smaller than the actual hull deck beam because it sits higher than the actual hull deck and will thus be narrower. By78's explanation is a succint one too.

FYI english is not my mothertongue so i may not understand some technical meanings. What do you mean by that "higher" ? Are you saying that the width of the platform represents the bottom of the hull (which naturally is narrower than the actual hull deck)?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top