Considering China sold 4 F-22P(053) + 4-6 helis and all shipboard weapons for 750 mil total, which amounts to 175 mil per ship, why can't 054 cost 200 mil?
054/A FFG Thread II
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
Considering China sold 4 F-22P(053) + 4-6 helis and all shipboard weapons for 750 mil total, which amounts to 175 mil per ship, why can't 054 cost 200 mil?
MwRYum
Major
405M USD in 1980s (I took the figure in 1980) equivalent to 1,098,351,152.91 USD in 2011, inflation rate @ 171.2%.
Go ahead and try this calculator:
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antiterror13
Brigadier
F-22P and 054A are totally different beast, wouldn't you know that. Cost of my car is also only $30K, why can't China sell 054A for $30K ?
There is no reason that an ASROC type of anti-submarine missiles can't be carried in a non-VLS launcher. If they don't have space for a VLS that launches both AShM and ASROC, they could certainly launch them from standard launcher. The problem is that even though the PLAN mentioned that 054A has this, we have not actually seen any picture to proof it. He also said at the time that 054A was using TAS and we didn't have a proof of that either, but now we do.
The reason you have TAS at the back is because the back of the ship is normally the noisiest part of the ship due to the propulsion unit and the sonar located at the back would have to be at a distance away from that noise to be able to detect anything. TAS is very important to detect submarines or other ships that are behind it. If the ship wants to detect objects at the other directions , it still needs capable hull mounted sonar. And having a large powerful bow mounted sonar is very important. Why do you think the Virginia class submarines have such a huge spherical bow mounted sonar + chin mounted sonar + flank array sonar? You seem to follow the Chinese bbs misconception that having TAS on ship is equivalent to AESA radar on fighter jet.
btw, I think you are referring to UUVs there. UUVs are more important for MCM missions than ASW missions.
As for VDS vs TAS, they obviously are more effective vs different types of targets. You equip whichever one based on your requirements.
Are you comparing the cost of unionized workers in America to cheap labour in China? You do realize that China has the most efficient shipbuilding sector in the world, right? 1.58 billion RMB is the cost it was quoted to cost per 054A when it first came out. Now, that probably doesn't include the weapon development cost or the cost for designing the 054 series of frigates. But considering how many they are building, that cost would be spread out and be pretty cheap. And once you are mass producing something like 054A, the cost just gets brought down.
It's hard to believe, but China actually made quite a bit of money on the F-22P deal. F-22P deal is just an indication of how cheaply Chinese shipbuilding sector can crank out warships.F-22P and 054A are totally different beast, wouldn't you know that. Cost of my car is also only $30K, why can't China sell 054A for $30K ?
So then is depreciation of a product just another way of representing inflation? Ie if I buy a car at $400 and twenty years later $400 inflates to $600 then my car has depreciated to 2/3 of it's original value?
don't put word in my mouth. I didn't say something doesn't mean I oppose to it.
Towed array is waaaayyyy more effective than hull mounted sonar as the primary detection solutoin, partly because the reason you stated that the ship is a noise emitter. and its geometry... huge distance compare to hull mounted array. which makes the signal to noise ratio a bit higher when try to triangulate a source.
and hull array is only at a fixed depth. Not good if you target is hiding beneath a layer.
what Hull mounted sonars gives you is the flexibility you need when you close in on a target. especially if you go active.
there is limitation on speed and ship motion when you tow a long array.
btw, the new generation of VDS are not much different from UUVs. there is a misconception there. that UUVs are used primary in countermine.
VDS is great in coastal/littoral environment. and I am telling you If Virginia is designed to wonder near coastal waters in continental shelf. then VDS will be back.
that's all.
MwRYum
Major
Depreciation works on a different track, don't tell me you fell asleep during economics classes.
F-22P and 054A are totally different beast, wouldn't you know that. Cost of my car is also only $30K, why can't China sell 054A for $30K ?
I was comparing two similar sized naval vessels designed and produced by the same country that share some similar roles, you are comparing apples to...Luke Skywalker or something.
Choosing to ignore common knowledge/common sense and making wildly exaggerated comparison makes it hard for people to see you as anything but a troll.
Do you realize that you are also NOT comparing the same thing? Foreign sale typical include items like training, supporting equipment, NRE (none recurring engineering cost), etc, while ship cost for those to be used by PLAN would not contain those items (they have separate budget for those).