054/A FFG Thread II

tphuang

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nice pix,that hangar seems very deep,but I think it still one hello inside,one on heli-pad, I think how far the ship going depend on the weather.
is this the last one or one more in H.D?

that's what I meant, one in helipad and one in hangar. PLAN in the past have really not shown that they can carry more helicopters this way. 054A really doesn't even matter, it's more about 071. If they get better at space usage, they can holding like 4 Z-8s in the hangar + jam like 8 on the deck. A couple of people on CDF did a good demonstration of that.
 

zaky

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I have noticed something strage. The Ka-28`s rotor in the picture is to smuth to be real. It`s loock like a dummy rotor. Just compare with this photo.

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panzerspitze

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I'm also wondering about Chinese naming conversions, and how they relate to international standards. For example, in Beiyang and early ROCN navies, there are only battleship(7000 ton), cruisers(1500 - 7000 ton), and gun boats (500 ton), while the name Frigate only appeared after introduction of Knox class in the ROCN and Jianghu class in PLAN.


Frigates are known in China as escort ship or guard ship
Destroyer are known as chaser ship
Cruiser are known as ocean patrol ship
Aircraft Carrier are known as aerial mothership.

Interesting the Cannon class Destroyer Escorts in service in the post-war ROCN are named as escort chaser ship, which mean translate to frigate-destroyers using today's translations.

There're "international standards"?! Who approved of the FREMM being a "frigate"?


Go look up the Type 065 Jiangnan Class and Type 01 Chengdu Class of the PLAN, both predating the Type 053 Jianghu by decades!
 
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Ambivalent

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I have noticed something strage. The Ka-28`s rotor in the picture is to smuth to be real. It`s loock like a dummy rotor. Just compare with this photo.

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We've seen that before. It looks like a training device for the deck crew. It appears there is another such device already inside the hanger. There is no way to operate two helos off such a small deck with only a single hanger space. If the helo on deck goes down you are effectively shut down. With the pitch and roll of a ship that size there is no safe way to move helos around on such a small deck to swap places. Just moving one in and out of the hanger is often difficult to do. There is a reason for things like Bear Trap and RAST. We almost lost an H-46 off the flight deck of an AE one day when the ship took an unexpected starboard roll, and that is a 20K ton ship. The crewman riding the brakes was doing his job but even with decent anti-skid on the flight deck, the helo's tires skated across the deck as we tried to push back against it's weight ( normal technique was to have eight guys push the helo with one crewman riding the brakes in the cockpit ). The helo finally stopped a foot or so from the deck edge when the ship rolled the other way and we slapped chains on it. Then we had to "chain walk" it into the hanger, a painstaking and time consuming chore. Realistically that is a one helo ship. You haven't lived until you have conducted helo ops off a small deck in a decent swell!
 

snake65

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There is no way to operate two helos off such a small deck with only a single hanger space. If the helo on deck goes down you are effectively shut down.

No. You ditch the faulty one and continue to operate the other one.:china:
That's a war-time advice, of course:D
 

crobato

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Its a dummy helo they use to check-fit the hanger. Give the people outfitting the hanger, some perspective of the space they have to reserve.
 

luhai

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There're "international standards"?! Who approved of the FREMM being a "frigate"?


Go look up the Type 065 Jiangnan Class and Type 01 Chengdu Class of the PLAN, both predating the Type 053 Jianghu by decades!

you're right, there really isn't a standard international designation, especially for non-western countries for example:
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(I do like how they have rocket ship category, it just sounds cool)

As for designation for Chengdu and Jiangnan, it seems to the designation as Frigate (Fu Wei Jian) is used in history literature today. Comteporary references seems to Type01 as Gun Ship (Pao Jian), though Type65 do get refered to as Fu Wei Jian. But Fu Wei Jian was defined essentially as a "large" ASW vassel. But it's a far cry from smallest unit of independent operation as defined ealier.

So basicly this conversation should really belong in military history section about how designation evolves over time and in different countries.
 

crobato

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If you want history, frigate in its original term in the Age of Sail, describes a ship with one line of guns. More powerful Ships of the Line or Man o Wars can go up to 3 or 4 lines of guns. The US Navy of the Revolutionary period kind of bent the rules a little, with frigates like the Constitution with 2 lines of guns.

With only one line of guns, frigates, particularly on the hands of the French and Dutch, dominated the seas and were the bane of the English, who also adopted the concept. Compared to multideckers, the frigates had a much lower center of gravity and were much easier to handle in the open ocean and in rougher seas. While they lacked the sheer power of the multideckers, frigates made up more than that in seaworthiness and maneuverability.

The operative modern definition of the classic sailing frigate today would be "cruiser".

In fact, that's how it stayed till the seventies. In the fifties and sixties, USN "Destroyer Leaders" or DL, effectively cruisers, were also frigates.

The term had its reform in the seventies when Frigate was changed to DE or Destroyer Escort, which is smaller than the standard destroyer "DD". That was how the "modern" definition of frigate came to be.

The Europeans, particularly the French never adopted this modern definition and stuck to the classic definition. So large ocean going warships that are in effect cruisers, are still called Frigates, and given sub classification like Frigate 1, 2, 3. Thus no surprise they got 6000mt plus frigates - its just in line with their classic definition.
 

tphuang

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More pictures of 054A sailing off as part of the 60th anniversary. I think this is the 3rd one from HD. The surrounding shipyard looks like HD rather than HP. I guess it's just started sea trials. Although, the news for that came out by words a few days ago.
 

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tphuang

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pictures of 054A in the ESF. Again, nothing new, just some nice high quality shots ahead of the 60th anniversary.
 

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