054/A FFG Thread II

[hardware]

most carnival cruise liner been using electric drive for decade.

 

[ladioussupp]

Possible Full electric propulsion system for 054B

大型船舶电力推进系统全部国产化 将用于054B型导弹护卫舰

2013年5月，在中海油服4艘6000hp深水平台供应船综合电力推进系统招标中，武汉712所与ABB、GE等国外知名公司同时投标，最终凭借优势成功获得该项合同，成为该型船的国内首家集成商。另外，该所的电力推进系统也获得交通运输部海事局认可，在大型航标船项目中得到应用。

I did some searches. And the result convinced me that the paragraph related to COLS is true. However, it does not mean 712 institute can successfully develop electrical propulsion system for man-o-war.

1. COLS China Oildfield Services Limited signed a contract to build 15 service ships including 4 6000HP supply ships.

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2. ZGPT Diesel Heavy Industry provides 16 MAN 6L 21/31 diesel engines for these four 6000HP supply ships as the power sources of electrical propulsion systems. One 6L 21/31 engine can provide 1290kw power.

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3. 712 Institute signed a contract with COLS to jointly developing "3MW class electrical propulsion system for deep water oilfield engineering ship."

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[delft]

The early US dreadnoughts and the first three US aircraft carriers had steam electric propulsion because American industry was unable to build large gearing.

 

[tphuang]

Oh Man, i ask you a simple question on which part of A.Man's article, what tech or figure given is "too good to be true", and all you telling me is you don't believe simply cos it's reporting by the chinese media, "ChiCom" media to you.

So what's there to discuss in this forum where 90% of all news are from chinese media, chinese forums and bbs. I guess you prefer discussing articles from strategypage which you like to quote. Excellent choice for someone who is picky on which media to believe.

That's your bias belief. Not a adequate reason to discredit A.Man. article and its claimed tech breakthrough.

Assume if i tell you that chinese believe all westerners and its media are out to discredit chinese achievement, some worse than others, and americans are the worst. Is this reason good enough to discredit all westerners, especially americans, posting in this forum for seeking clarification on chinese achievements.

Your doubts on A.Man's article and its claim have just been nullified by the above assumed belief. Do you want me and other forumers to adopt similar beliefs??

1) I agree.
2) I hope so.
3) Yes, better than most other english-speaking forums/media sources such as Strategypage, even Janes.
4) I like Jeff Head for his extensive knowledge on US naval practices. Feng, a Canadian chinese who left China at the age of 10/12?? gets most of his info from chinese forum/bbs, the very media you distrust. Maybe you like Feng's style of reporting chinese military development which most of us can see the reason for your pet preference.
5) What is there to verify if you just discredit the all chinese media and 90% of all news in forum are from chinese media.

I really don't the stamina or wish to correct your bias belief. i hope for the good of this forum, you can look at an article as it is and not simply say "NO, BS, its from ChiCom media".

Any posters can be skeptical toward a source we have here, especially since there is no particular link that A.Man posted. People have been skeptical of stuff I posted, Jeff posted and anything else.

And there is completely good reason to be skeptical of typical articles you see on Chinese bbs. I have talked about this before. There are plenty of Chinese web links that are basically just rehashing what's reported on JDW or Kanwa or Russian media or western media. Unfortunately, A.Man and hardware post a lot of these links without dicrimination or checking to see where the original story came from. I have said before that most of our good sources are from Chinese website and bbs, but we have to be careful what we use from there.

Now in this case, the article A.Man posted is from what I would consider a legitimate source. The problem is of course the article content just says they have this technology. The person that posted this on Chinese forum had the conjecture this might be for the propulsion unit for the future 054B. And that's what the title is normally. Of course, we won't know what 054B's propulsion is until it comes out.

As for what my background is, it's kind of alarming to me that everyone on this forum seem to read enough of my posts or blogs to know approximately when I left China and what I do for living now. As with all else, my information is careful taken and I use that information to moderate this forum and correct discussions that are compeltely going off the rails. What I ask is that every posters respect each other's view points. If you are new to posting here, you should be even more respecful toward those who have been around for a long time. Moderators will stop certain posters if they are being annoying. You can raise those issues with us.

 

[rolking]

Any posters can be skeptical toward a source we have here, especially since there is no particular link that A.Man posted. People have been skeptical of stuff I posted, Jeff posted and anything else.

And there is completely good reason to be skeptical of typical articles you see on Chinese bbs. I have talked about this before. There are plenty of Chinese web links that are basically just rehashing what's reported on JDW or Kanwa or Russian media or western media. Unfortunately, A.Man and hardware post a lot of these links without dicrimination or checking to see where the original story came from. I have said before that most of our good sources are from Chinese website and bbs, but we have to be careful what we use from there.

Now in this case, the article A.Man posted is from what I would consider a legitimate source. The problem is of course the article content just says they have this technology. The person that posted this on Chinese forum had the conjecture this might be for the propulsion unit for the future 054B. And that's what the title is normally. Of course, we won't know what 054B's propulsion is until it comes out.

As for what my background is, it's kind of alarming to me that everyone on this forum seem to read enough of my posts or blogs to know approximately when I left China and what I do for living now. As with all else, my information is careful taken and I use that information to moderate this forum and correct discussions that are compeltely going off the rails. What I ask is that every posters respect each other's view points. If you are new to posting here, you should be even more respecful toward those who have been around for a long time. Moderators will stop certain posters if they are being annoying. You can raise those issues with us.

I will post my response after 2013.08.16.

 

[delft]

Just a technical point: If China develops a successor for 054A and goes to electric propulsion it must entail so much change that the new class deserves a different designation than 054B, IMO.

 

[vincent]

For blackstone

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此次三大订单中，以中海油田服务股份有限公司6000HP深水供应船船用柴油发动机项目16台套6L 21/31最为显眼，此柴油发动机项目是中高柴油机继提供重庆新世纪游轮股份有限公司建造的豪华游轮“世纪神话”、“世纪传奇”2条船8台套6L 21/31之后，中高柴油机又一次拿下“电推船(船型 船厂 买卖)”项目

Among these three orders, the 16 set of 6L 21/31 (6000HP) deep ocean supply vessel diesel engines provided by Chinese High Diesel Engine Heavy Industry grabs the most attention. This is another order for electric populsion ships after eight sets of the same engine were supplied to Chongqing New Century Cruise Liner for two of their luxury liners.

 

[shen]

There is a difference between just electric propulsion, where the power goes directly from the generators to the propulsion motor, vs integrated electric propulsion, where the power goes from the generators to a ship-wide electric distribution netwrok and the propulsion motors get power from the powernet. My understanding is that the later is far more challenging to implement.

 

[luhai]

There is a difference between just electric propulsion, where the power goes directly from the generators to the propulsion motor, vs integrated electric propulsion, where the power goes from the generators to a ship-wide electric distribution netwrok and the propulsion motors get power from the powernet. My understanding is that the later is far more challenging to implement.

It's not that more challenging, you just need a good regulation and power management system. If a country design modern diesel-electric Submarines, that leap will be a piece of cake.

 

[shen]

It is not simply. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that submarines propulsion only runs on DC, DC generators charging batteries, which power the motors, while separate axillary generators power the boat's system. modern IPS uses AC power distribution system.