054/A FFG Thread II

no_name

Colonel
I think that the 054 is probably not designed with VLS in mind. The first few 054A have front sections that looked different to latter ones. They also look different to the 054. I feel that the 054 was a settled design on it's own, and that they have to modify the front to fit in the VLS for the first couple 054As, and latter 054As have new design with reduced signature.

It may be possible to refit the 054 for VLS, but they might have to tear out some section and rebuild it.
 
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i.e.

Senior Member
I think that the 054 is probably not designed with VLS in mind. The first few 054A have front sections that looked different to latter ones. They also look different to the 054. I feel that the 054 was a settled design on it's own, and that they have to modify the front to fit in the VLS for the first couple 054As, and latter 054As have new design with reduced signature.

It may be possible to refit the 054 for VLS, but they might have to tear out some section and rebuild it.



On the contrary I think 054 series is designed with VLS in mind.


the reason tehy went for the first pair of 054 with out VLS is because of HHQ-16 didn't pass the qual in time.
 

escobar

Brigadier
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tphuang

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In terms of function, the HQ7 is effectively a point defence missile the same as the HQ10. The HQ7 has more range and a bigger warhead, but they are still only going to be shooting at incoming missiles as there is no way the HQ7 can hit a fighter unless it was trying to kamikaze you.

If the 054 has a comprehansive sensor and AA battle management suit in place or has the provisions for one, than that is even more reason to upgrade the missile so those systems and sensors could be put to best use instead of being limited by the range of the HQ7.
my point is that you don't seem to appreciate all of the factors that come to play here.

All good points, and all things the shipyard would have had to resolve when they developed the 054 design into the 054A. All that work had already been done, and based on the relatively short time between the 054 and 054A designs, chances as the mods were not too extensive or comprehensive. There is even the possibility that the 054 themselves were designed with VLS in mind, but had to make do with HQ7s because the HQ16 was not ready in time. If that was the case, then there is a good chance that the internal structure was designed to allow for a retrofit of VLS at a later date.
They had to make quite a bit of changes to go from 054 to 054A. They even had to make more changes from the first batch of 054A to the second batch. There were 3 years from when the 054s were launched to when 054As were launched, do you think they were just sitting around in those times?

Why is CIWS tied to missile choice? If adding the Type 730 would require too much work, then just stick with the AKs. It's not like the choice of missile has to be tied to CISW. And funny you should being in 112 and 113, if it was possible to retrofit 730s onto them, then there really shouldn't be that big of a problem doing the same with the 054s.
because everything works in a system. You don't have to put Type 730 in there, but you design these air defenses with certain combat systems, a complex set of sensors, data fusion and such. HH-16 is part of the launch system and Type 730 is part of it too and same with AK-176M and the decoy launchers and the ECM/ESM.

That is why I suggested the mid-life overhaul as a good time to consider this upgrade, as by that time, all the wiring and sensors would need replacing anyways.

You already have ready-made blue prints for turning 054s into 054As. Granted it will be harder to upgrade existing ships than to build the new design from scratch, but there is a pretty good chance that it can be done, especially if the original 054 design had provisions for VLS.

Even if they didn't the designers would have wanted to minimise the changes they would have had to make to the 054 design to turn them into 054As on the 'if it isn't broke, don't fix it' principle. Which increase the chances of such an upgrade being possible.
The building process for 054A is very efficient. There is no reason to turn 054s into 054A, because they already have a very defined role that PLAN is weak on and need a lot of help with. PLAN is not short on ships. It is not like these smaller navies that need jack of all trade frigates.

Well the 112 and 113 hulls were never designed with VLS in mind, and if they wanted to put in VLS, they would have had to come up with a revised design from scratch. Such a design is already readily available for the 054, and has been demonstrated as perfectly feasible by the 054A.

As for the decision to keep HQ7s, well didn't you yourself suggest that that was more for logistical reasons on account of the PLAN still having a large stock of HQ7s?

There is absolutely no technical issues that I can see that would stop the PLAN putting HQ10s on 112 an 113 in place of the HQ7s if they really wanted to.

112/113 did not even get HQ-10 put on it or a non-VLS version of HQ-16 or shtil on it after spending that much time in the dry docks. And I did suggest the large stock of HQ-7 was a contributing factor to not replace it with HQ-10. The same explanation could be applied on 054. Why would they retrofit HQ-16 on 054s when they did not even put HQ-10 on 112/113? They clearly thought it did not make economical and military sense to do so.
 

franco-russe

Senior Member
None of this is likely to happen. According to the 2035 forecast that A. Man posted, 525 and 526 will transfer to 10 Destroyer Flotilla at Lushun in 2012, to team up with JIANGWEI II 527 and 528 in 7 Frigate Squadron, replacing JIANGHU 519, 543, and 545.
 

tphuang

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This is on the new export SAM LY-80. From the look of it, it could give us some clues of the performance of HQ-16. Even though this is land based and HQ-16 is naval based. You guys can make your own judgment on this one.

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This is on the new export SAM LY-80. From the look of it, it could give us some clues of the performance of HQ-16. Even though this is land based and HQ-16 is naval based. You guys can make your own judgment on this one.
 
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