054/A FFG Thread II

[Jeff Head]

If you look at 054A, it's already had a very long production run. There were only 14 Jiangwei, so 054A will already exceed that. I think if it was not for 054A's performance in Gulf of Aden, these ships that we see now will probably be the last ones. But instead, we will see a few more coming out.

Agree, tphuang. I believe we may see up to 20 Type 054As, maybe even as many as 24. we shall see. That is a large run for the PLAN now and will meet their needs.

They will be excellent escorts for larger vessels (ie. the LPDs or Carriers) and would also work well as a part of any SAG with 3-4 surface combatants involved...or on individual patrol duties.

 

[MwRYum]

While the 054A design have proved its worth in real life (short of real combat, but hey, how many does anyway?), its long production run reflects on the PLAN urgency to replace the old and obsolete designs like the 053 class plus expansion of the fleet, and even to certain degree to pick up destroyer's role - such as eventually retire the absolutely outdated Type 051 destroyers (dimension and displacement wise 054A already trumped the 051, if not counting the capabilities).

Despite all that, won't using frigates for surface action group or carrier battle group duties would be too taxing? The relative small number of modern destroyers in PLAN means the frigates will be needed to take up the slacks in SAM duties, plus other strike roles whether it fits, but the smaller platform of frigates means it'd be a stretch to do so.

 

[HKSDU]

While the 054A design have proved its worth in real life (short of real combat, but hey, how many does anyway?), its long production run reflects on the PLAN urgency to replace the old and obsolete designs like the 053 class plus expansion of the fleet, and even to certain degree to pick up destroyer's role - such as eventually retire the absolutely outdated Type 051 destroyers (dimension and displacement wise 054A already trumped the 051, if not counting the capabilities).

Despite all that, won't using frigates for surface action group or carrier battle group duties would be too taxing? The relative small number of modern destroyers in PLAN means the frigates will be needed to take up the slacks in SAM duties, plus other strike roles whether it fits, but the smaller platform of frigates means it'd be a stretch to do so.

Well it could fill the role for a short term stop gap, but then you would also thin out the frigate inventory. But we can see the Type 052C production is starting to pick up abit now, so I wouldn't worry too much about the retiring Type 051. The Type 051B/C, Type 052B are all still capable, the Type 051 really needs to go.

 

[hmmwv]

It seems to be the trend that PLAN is trying to replacing older assets at a 1:1 ratio, which is surprising considering what a technological leap the new platforms offer. For example Jiangweis and 054 series will completely replace the 30-plus Jianghu class, 022 replaced 021 one to one, modern destroyers (052A/B/C, 051B/C, Sovremenny) are replacing all 16 Ludas. Around 2015 we may see a peak in the number of PLAN major surface combatants, with 50 frigates and 30 destroyers, before the old gen ships start to be retired rapidly.

 

[plawolf]

While the 054A design have proved its worth in real life (short of real combat, but hey, how many does anyway?), its long production run reflects on the PLAN urgency to replace the old and obsolete designs like the 053 class plus expansion of the fleet, and even to certain degree to pick up destroyer's role - such as eventually retire the absolutely outdated Type 051 destroyers (dimension and displacement wise 054A already trumped the 051, if not counting the capabilities).

Despite all that, won't using frigates for surface action group or carrier battle group duties would be too taxing? The relative small number of modern destroyers in PLAN means the frigates will be needed to take up the slacks in SAM duties, plus other strike roles whether it fits, but the smaller platform of frigates means it'd be a stretch to do so.

It's not a replacement programme, but more of a fundamental paradigm shift in the PLAN's primary mission and operating environment, where they are transitioning from a brown water defensive force into a green and blue water power projection force.

The likes of the 054A might be taking the place of the 053s, but they will be performing a lot of different roles compared to the 053, and the likes of the 056 will move in to take over some of the roles the 053s used to perform, but which the 054As would be overkill for now.

As for FFGs being 'stretched', well one-on-one, the 054A cannot really compare to the likes of the British Type 45s, but how many Type 45s will the RN get compared to 054As for the PLAN?

Individually, the 054A might not pack as much ordinance as other primary fleet defenders, but the PLAN can, and will assign more 054As to protect their carriers than other navies have escorts for their's, so overall, the combat persistence would be about the same, but the PLAN would have better coverage and redundancy with more ships.

Besides, the PLAN only has 1 carrier at present and for foreseeable future. They have more than enough modern DDGs to form a world-class escort force with DDGs alone, and that is not counting the 3-4 they have in construction at present.

 

[HKSDU]

It's not a replacement programme, but more of a fundamental paradigm shift in the PLAN's primary mission and operating environment, where they are transitioning from a brown water defensive force into a green and blue water power projection force.

The likes of the 054A might be taking the place of the 053s, but they will be performing a lot of different roles compared to the 053, and the likes of the 056 will move in to take over some of the roles the 053s used to perform, but which the 054As would be overkill for now.

As for FFGs being 'stretched', well one-on-one, the 054A cannot really compare to the likes of the British Type 45s, but how many Type 45s will the RN get compared to 054As for the PLAN?

Individually, the 054A might not pack as much ordinance as other primary fleet defenders, but the PLAN can, and will assign more 054As to protect their carriers than other navies have escorts for their's, so overall, the combat persistence would be about the same, but the PLAN would have better coverage and redundancy with more ships.

Besides, the PLAN only has 1 carrier at present and for foreseeable future. They have more than enough modern DDGs to form a world-class escort force with DDGs alone, and that is not counting the 3-4 they have in construction at present.

Type 45 => Destroyer
Type 054A => Frigate

If you wanted to use Type 45 comparison it should be up against Type 052C shouldn't it? Of course it doesn't match, one has 3000t extra on it.

 

[asif iqbal]

i cant believe that a single Type 45 destroyer costs over £1 billion and still doesnt have any offensive capability to launch anti-ship missiles, that is just beyond ridiculous

it maybe be the best in the world in defence but still it should have atleast a little bit offence to be a good all round ship

 

[Jeff Head]

Despite all that, won't using frigates for surface action group or carrier battle group duties would be too taxing? The relative small number of modern destroyers in PLAN means the frigates will be needed to take up the slacks in SAM duties, plus other strike roles whether it fits, but the smaller platform of frigates means it'd be a stretch to do so.

Right now the PLAN could field a very effective carrier strike group with the carrier, two Type 052Cs, at least one Type 093 SSN, two Type 054As, and one either Type 052B or one of the Soverenemmy DDGs. Such a group with a carrier, three DDGs one SSN, and two FFGs would be very effective and very capable.

If they really wanted to beef it up, add two more Type 054As.

A good amphibious assault group could consist of one or two Type 071s, at least two Type 072 IIIs , one Type 052C, and 3-4 Type 054As.

With a supporting UNREP group consisting of the replensihment ship and a couple of Type 054A FFGs...and maybe a Type 052C or Type 051C, the PLAN already has all of the necessary componenets to make this happen. With the carrier of course, they will once the air wing is trained and embarked...still at least 2-3 years out probably.

 

[adeptitus]

i cant believe that a single Type 45 destroyer costs over £1 billion and still doesnt have any offensive capability to launch anti-ship missiles, that is just beyond ridiculous
it maybe be the best in the world in defence but still it should have atleast a little bit offence to be a good all round ship

The Type 45 DDG is said to be designed for 2 x 4 Harpoon SSM's, but not installed at this time.

 

[asif iqbal]

The Type 45 DDG is said to be designed for 2 x 4 Harpoon SSM's, but not installed at this time.

yes, it also is designed to carry tomahawks but doesnt carry them either, how strange!