054/A FFG Thread II

franco-russe

Senior Member
Re: ¦^ÂÃ: 054 Series Frigate Thread 2

Probably when they stop building 054B (if they build it). Assuming a minimum building programme of 8 units, this should be finished 2015/2016. So a new frigate class may be expected about 2017.

As the French almost certainly had a hand in designing 054, with some inspiration from the LA FAYETTE class, it does not seem totally excluded that there will be some resemblance to FREMM - or the AQUITAINE class, as it is now.
 

kroko

Senior Member
Re: ¦^ÂÃ: 054 Series Frigate Thread 2

Probably when they stop building 054B (if they build it). Assuming a minimum building programme of 8 units, this should be finished 2015/2016. So a new frigate class may be expected about 2017.

As the French almost certainly had a hand in designing 054, with some inspiration from the LA FAYETTE class, it does not seem totally excluded that there will be some resemblance to FREMM - or the AQUITAINE class, as it is now.

Well eventually china will desig a new frigate. The question is when.

Its easy to build a hull. the equipment is another story. china must develop new tech in order to compete with foreign vessels.

And i havent read anything about france helping to develop type 054A. I dont think france would risk that.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
there are some rumours spreading that Pakistan may aquire 2 Type 054 Frigates on lease from China, the 2 named are serial number 525 Ma'anshan, and 526 Wenzhou not sure how realistic this is though
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The 054 does not offer any substantially more capable in terms of weapons fit than the F22Ps the PN already have.

It would make sense if the PN were to get 054As with HQ16s as that is bringing something new that Pakistan does not have yet.

I wonder how hard/costly it would be to upgrade the 054s to 054A standard.

If it is true, then it is a bit of a strange deal unless the 054s are to be upgraded to 054As before delivery.
 

no_name

Colonel
Maybe pakistan is getting these two 054's at reduced price. Perhapse the PLAN wants an all 054A modern frigate force (older boats won't find buyers).

They only have those two 054 anyway.
 

Red___Sword

Junior Member
The 054 does not offer any substantially more capable in terms of weapons fit than the F22Ps the PN already have.

It would make sense if the PN were to get 054As with HQ16s as that is bringing something new that Pakistan does not have yet.

I wonder how hard/costly it would be to upgrade the 054s to 054A standard.

If it is true, then it is a bit of a strange deal unless the 054s are to be upgraded to 054As before delivery.

I think there is no way 054A to be exported in short time, you just don't reveal your full capability to anyone who not serve the "August First Star".

Export 054 with an give-away-price to PN, would be probable.

You can ask the same question: Once J-20 is in service, do you think China would export them (in short time)?
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
well PN is already buying new equipment and quite simply put Type054A is probably too expensive for PN, PN got 4 F22Ps for $750 million only because China approved a "soft" loan to Pakistan, if that loan was not approved PN Chief said himself we couldnt buy the frigates, so I dont think PN can splash out on 2-4 Type 054A frigates

PN is going to retire 6 Tariq class (formally Type 21 frigate from RN) they are being replaced with 4 F22Ps frigates and +2 (unknown), it makes sense to get 2 Type 054, if PN wanted Type 054A i dont think China would have any problems sharing the platform

the older Type 054 will give PN a new platform and 2 more advanced frigates in its inventory, they will add more firepower and will be cheap for Pakistan, maybe even in the end becoming free as China has just written off many loans in the past for Pakistan

this will bring the fleet back to 6 modern frigates 4 F22Ps + 2 Type 054
 

i.e.

Senior Member
well PN is already buying new equipment and quite simply put Type054A is probably too expensive for PN, PN got 4 F22Ps for $750 million only because China approved a "soft" loan to Pakistan, if that loan was not approved PN Chief said himself we couldnt buy the frigates, so I dont think PN can splash out on 2-4 Type 054A frigates

PN is going to retire 6 Tariq class (formally Type 21 frigate from RN) they are being replaced with 4 F22Ps frigates and +2 (unknown), it makes sense to get 2 Type 054, if PN wanted Type 054A i dont think China would have any problems sharing the platform

the older Type 054 will give PN a new platform and 2 more advanced frigates in its inventory, they will add more firepower and will be cheap for Pakistan, maybe even in the end becoming free as China has just written off many loans in the past for Pakistan

this will bring the fleet back to 6 modern frigates 4 F22Ps + 2 Type 054

for All intents and purposes the F22Ps are modernized 053H3s. same engine parts and everything.
PLAN can retire some older 053H2s and give them Pak for free. ripe out the HHQ-61 and install HHQ-7s .
that would be a better solution.

If PN wants a decent air defence frigate, just wait for the next round of 054+ incarnation ...
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
well PN is already buying new equipment and quite simply put Type054A is probably too expensive for PN, PN got 4 F22Ps for $750 million only because China approved a "soft" loan to Pakistan, if that loan was not approved PN Chief said himself we couldnt buy the frigates, so I dont think PN can splash out on 2-4 Type 054A frigates

PN is going to retire 6 Tariq class (formally Type 21 frigate from RN) they are being replaced with 4 F22Ps frigates and +2 (unknown), it makes sense to get 2 Type 054, if PN wanted Type 054A i dont think China would have any problems sharing the platform

the older Type 054 will give PN a new platform and 2 more advanced frigates in its inventory, they will add more firepower and will be cheap for Pakistan, maybe even in the end becoming free as China has just written off many loans in the past for Pakistan

this will bring the fleet back to 6 modern frigates 4 F22Ps + 2 Type 054

Despite the warship building boom in recent years, the PLAN hardly has a surplus of modern FFGs to just given a pair away to Pakistan. Especially with the Varyag nearing completion, the PLAN will need to build a decent defensive fleet around her, and that will further stretch the PLAN's resources. The 054s might not have 054A standard, but they are perfectly capable for low threat missions like anti-piracy or territorial patrols.

Selling new builds to make cashy money is one thing, taking ships out of service to lease to someone else (presumably at a modest lease fee) doesn't really make a whole lot of sense for the PLAN.

I am also pretty sure the PLAN would not allow one of their in-service frontline warships to be transfered to someone else, even Pakistan, as it is without some of the most sensitive equipment replaced with export models. Similarly, I am sure the PN would want the ships to have their own specialist equipment on board so the new ships can work with the rest of the PN's forces. I know China and Pakistan are close, but I doubt they have such a close working military relationship that warships from either country could just sail in and work seamlessly with all other assets of the host navy. All that means time in docks for a re-fit and costs.

I know it would be a similar case regarding sensitive and force specific equipment for new built 054As, but at least then all the equipment can be installed from the start without having to rip out perfectly fine kit to replace it with a similar item as you are paying for both sets and it will take a lot more time to do compared to just installing it from the start.
 

Red___Sword

Junior Member
I am also pretty sure the PLAN would not allow one of their in-service frontline warships to be transfered to someone else, even Pakistan, as it is without some of the most sensitive equipment replaced with export models. Similarly, I am sure the PN would want the ships to have their own specialist equipment on board so the new ships can work with the rest of the PN's forces. I know China and Pakistan are close, but I doubt they have such a close working military relationship that warships from either country could just sail in and work seamlessly with all other assets of the host navy. All that means time in docks for a re-fit and costs.

I know it would be a similar case regarding sensitive and force specific equipment for new built 054As, but at least then all the equipment can be installed from the start without having to rip out perfectly fine kit to replace it with a similar item as you are paying for both sets and it will take a lot more time to do compared to just installing it from the start.

Yes, that's what I said at #1026.

Today China is simply FFG and DDG hungry, cash is less a concern than ships-actually-in-service, not to mention 054A is too sensative to export to anyone.

Don't know about how PLAN treat about 056 though (exportable or not?) but that's another topic.
 
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