052C/052D Class Destroyers

by78

General
Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I also have hopes that the CIC consoles will be more modern: electronics are constantly advancing and china is the world's factory and supplier and at the leading edge of the new tech. PLA would be silly to not leverage their COTS access.
Considering 056's consoles are already very modern them selves (modular large screens, track ball, keyboard, and dual touch screens), and the first 056 was launched in 2012, then if 055 hull 1 is launched in 2016 they would have had 4 years to either update their console standards for 055 or even longer than that, if they wanted to develop new consoles especially for 055.

CICs of past PLAN ships were all somewhat limited by hull size and overall displacement. Given 055 might displace almost half as much as an 052C/D, and considering it is stated to have a strong command role as well as emphasis on automation, combat system integration, and increasing net-centric capability, I am also cautiously optimistic we will see a CIC large enough for 055 and worthy of its class.

The only disappointment is knowing we will probably have to wait until 2020 for CCTV to do one of their 2 minute news reports of a new ship participating in an exercise to get a few seconds of a brief clip of the CIC >__<

Just as importantly, ergonomics of individual workstations needs to improve. Look at the photo below, and let me explain:

12157097844_ecf6ffa36f_o.jpg


Notice none of the sailors have they backs comfortably embedded in the seats, and all the armrests are too far away. If they try to press their backs into the seats, they'd be too far from the consoles. If they scoot their seats forward, their elbows would be forced into an uncomfortable angle.

This is poor ergonomics. The solution would be to either raise the seats or lower the 'desk' level so that the angle between the forearm and upper-arm is at a more natural and comfortable 90 degrees. Even better, arm rests should come up to the lower end of user's ribcage to provide better support, so that with arms rested on the armrests and hands placed on the keyboard, the finger tips form an angle of 45 to 60 degrees.

This seating position provides multiple benefits:
1) It frees up more 'vertical' viewable space, enabling the two smaller touch screens to be erected at a steeper angle for better viewing. It also allows the primary display to be enlarged along the vertical dimension.

2) It decreases the distance between the user and primary displays and allows a more comfortable viewing angle.

3) Should the PLAN eliminate the upper primary display and opt for a tri-panel setup, then the user can gain a comfortable eye-level access to the displays mounted on the forward wall of the CIC.

4) It shrinks overall footprint of the console, freeing up more valuable space for other uses.
 
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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Regarding the chairs, I'm not sure if those chairs are fixed or not, but if they're not fixed then chances are they can be elevated and lowered accordingly.

Of course, the PLAN has always seemed to be fond of non fixed furniture for their CICs... Which is something that should be rectified.

If they are fixed then I agree about ergonomics, of course.
 

by78

General
Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Regarding the chairs, I'm not sure if those chairs are fixed or not, but if they're not fixed then chances are they can be elevated and lowered accordingly.

Of course, the PLAN has always seemed to be fond of non fixed furniture for their CICs... Which is something that should be rectified.

If they are fixed then I agree about ergonomics, of course.

From all the videos and photos I've seen of the PLAN CICs, the chairs can be rotated and may have adjustable lumbar, but all other parameters appear fixed.

Perhaps the seats should be mounted on rails (flush with the floor) and their height made adjustable.
 
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Solaris

Banned Idiot
Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

CICs of past PLAN ships were all somewhat limited by hull size and overall displacement. Given 055 might displace almost half as much as an 052C/D, and considering it is stated to have a strong command role as well as emphasis on automation, combat system integration, and increasing net-centric capability, I am also cautiously optimistic we will see a CIC large enough for 055 and worthy of its class.
Personally I would like to see a two deck high CIC for the 055. It's a giant waste of internal volume I know but maybe a higher degree of automation will result in less crew and more overall space. After all the Zumwalt CIC from early design sketches indicated it would be a bilevel CIC.


Notice none of the sailors have they backs comfortably embedded in the seats, and all the armrests are too far away. If they try to press their backs into the seats, they'd be too far from the consoles. If they scoot their seats forward, their elbows would be forced into an uncomfortable angle.

This is poor ergonomics. The solution would be to either raise the seats or lower the 'desk' level so that the angle between the forearm and upper-arm is at a more natural and comfortable 90 degrees. Even better, arm rests should come up to the lower end of user's ribcage to provide better support, so that with arms rested on the armrests and hands placed on the keyboard, the finger tips form an angle of 45 to 60 degrees.

This seating position provides multiple benefits:
1) It frees up more 'vertical' viewable space, enabling the two smaller touch screens to be erected at a steeper angle for better viewing. It also allows the primary display to be enlarged along the vertical dimension.

2) It decreases the distance between the user and primary displays and allows a more comfortable viewing angle.

3) Should the PLAN eliminate the upper primary display and opt for a tri-panel setup, then the user can gain a comfortable eye-level access to the displays mounted on the forward wall of the CIC.

4) It shrinks overall footprint of the console, freeing up more valuable space for other uses.
I have been thinking pretty much the exact same things you just said here.


From all the videos and photos I've seen of the PLAN CICs, the chairs can be rotated and may have adjustable lumbar, but all other parameters appear fixed.
Perhaps the seats should be mounted on rails (flush with the floor) and their height made adjustable.
From all the videos and photos I've seen of the CIC's, the seats are not likely to be fixed to the floor like they should be. I don't think they are on rollers at least, but they are not bolted to the floor, and I'm not talking about the simulator CIC photos; I'm talking about the real CIC's inside current PLAN ships. This would obviously become a problem during combat with damage resulting in significant listing or sailing through high sea states.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Zumwalt's CIC is unique, in that the bottom level is for traditional ship's functions, while the smaller upper level is for a special unit deployed on with the ship, like UAVs, SOF, or perhaps a flag officer and their staff.

055 could probably benefit from that as well but may be a luxury and a complexity. I'd prefer just a larger, modern and ergonomic CIC overall to start with, with space left over for future growth.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I would hope so!

See, zumwalt"s CIC. Without the screens on you'd be forgiven for mistaking this as the generic office of any kind of generic business firm.

zumwalt-ops-center.jpg

That's actually a representation of the Zumwalt CiC.. maybe a 70% accurate mopckup While the real thing will look fairly similar it will not be far from exact. There will be no mistaken it for a CiC of a warship in the real Zumwalt even with the flat panels and keyboards and mice on the desk.
 
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no_name

Colonel
Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

It's said that the building price of the 052D averages out to be about half a million RMB per ton. (Maybe with radars but not missiles?)

Using 7000 tons as an estimate the total price comes out to be around 3.5 Billion RMB or 561 million USD per ship at 0.16 exchange rate.

Though I heard that the CIWS gun alone could cost about 100million RMB.
 
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