052/052B Class Destroyers
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Let's see... ROC Government was established in Nanjing on Jan 1st, 1912, and Qing Dynasty abdicated on Feb 12, 1912. At the time of abdication, I seem to recall reading that there was a Chinese warship visiting abroad that still flew the Qing banner and became state-less, before they returned to China and surrendered the ships to ROC government. A couple ships were under construction or pending delivery from Europe as well.
In 1912 the ROC Navy was divided into 3 fleets, 1st fleet, 2nd fleet, and training fleet:
中華民國海軍(1912年民元時)
第一艦隊
巡洋艦: 海圻, 海容, 海籌, 海琛
驅逐艦: 飛鷹, 建康, 同安, 豫章
砲艦: 永豐, 永翔, 聯鯨, 舞鳳
運艦: 福安
第二艦隊
驅逐艦: 建威, 建安
淺水砲艦: 江元, 江亨, 江利, 江貞, 楚同, 楚泰, 楚有, 楚豫, 楚觀, 楚謙, 江鯤, 江犀, 拱辰, 建中, 永安
魚雷艇: 宿字, 列字, 辰字, 章字, 湖鵬, 湖鶚, 湖鷹, 湖隼
練習艦隊
巡洋艦: 肇和, 應瑞
So to find out what ships were abroad, it's a simple matter of looking up the ships. For example the Cruiser Hai-Chi (海圻) was sent to attended the coronation of King George V, which took place on June 22nd, 1911. Afterwards it went to visit US and Cuba, arriving in New York around Sept 12th, 1911:
After the first Sino-Japanese War, the Qing did attempt to rebuild her fleet and 海圻 was built by the British in 1896. Protected Cruiers 海容、海筹、& 海琛 were built by Germany and delivered in 1898, for the price of £163,000 each:
Um... this is like naval history stuff, so if we want to continue, perhaps we can move to a different thread?
Let's see... ROC Government was established in Nanjing on Jan 1st, 1912, and Qing Dynasty abdicated on Feb 12, 1912. At the time of abdication, I seem to recall reading that there was a Chinese warship visiting abroad that still flew the Qing banner and became state-less, before they returned to China and surrendered the ships to ROC government. A couple ships were under construction or pending delivery from Europe as well.
In 1912 the ROC Navy was divided into 3 fleets, 1st fleet, 2nd fleet, and training fleet:
中華民國海軍(1912年民元時)
第一艦隊
巡洋艦: 海圻, 海容, 海籌, 海琛
驅逐艦: 飛鷹, 建康, 同安, 豫章
砲艦: 永豐, 永翔, 聯鯨, 舞鳳
運艦: 福安
第二艦隊
驅逐艦: 建威, 建安
淺水砲艦: 江元, 江亨, 江利, 江貞, 楚同, 楚泰, 楚有, 楚豫, 楚觀, 楚謙, 江鯤, 江犀, 拱辰, 建中, 永安
魚雷艇: 宿字, 列字, 辰字, 章字, 湖鵬, 湖鶚, 湖鷹, 湖隼
練習艦隊
巡洋艦: 肇和, 應瑞
So to find out what ships were abroad, it's a simple matter of looking up the ships. For example the Cruiser Hai-Chi (海圻) was sent to attended the coronation of King George V, which took place on June 22nd, 1911. Afterwards it went to visit US and Cuba, arriving in New York around Sept 12th, 1911:
After the first Sino-Japanese War, the Qing did attempt to rebuild her fleet and 海圻 was built by the British in 1896. Protected Cruiers 海容、海筹、& 海琛 were built by Germany and delivered in 1898, for the price of £163,000 each:
Um... this is like naval history stuff, so if we want to continue, perhaps we can move to a different thread?
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solarz
Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Actually, that article is inaccurate. The Hai Chi did not circumnavigate the globe, it reached Cuba via the Atlantic, and returned along the same route.
Translation:
In the September of 1911, Hai Chi left Havana, beginning it's journey home. Originally, Hai Chi planned on crossing the Panama Canal to return to China via the Pacific Ocean, which would not only complete China's first ever circumnavigation, but also shorten its journey by 1/3. However, Ha Chi had limited coal and logistic supplies, and a single ship crossing the Pacific faces a certain amount of risk. In the end, it was decided that Hai Chi would return using the same itinerary. After visiting the Bermuda islands, Hai Chi arrived at the northwestern coast of England at the end of September.
Actually, that article is inaccurate. The Hai Chi did not circumnavigate the globe, it reached Cuba via the Atlantic, and returned along the same route.
Translation:
In the September of 1911, Hai Chi left Havana, beginning it's journey home. Originally, Hai Chi planned on crossing the Panama Canal to return to China via the Pacific Ocean, which would not only complete China's first ever circumnavigation, but also shorten its journey by 1/3. However, Ha Chi had limited coal and logistic supplies, and a single ship crossing the Pacific faces a certain amount of risk. In the end, it was decided that Hai Chi would return using the same itinerary. After visiting the Bermuda islands, Hai Chi arrived at the northwestern coast of England at the end of September.
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Actually, the panama canal wouldn't open until August 1914. This article must be seriously misinformed about the plans of Hai Chi in 1911.
Actually, the panama canal wouldn't open until August 1914. This article must be seriously misinformed about the plans of Hai Chi in 1911.
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re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
There's a bit of interesting history here beyond the circumnavigation attempt. If memory serves, the Imperial Chinese Hai Chi armored cruiser was the first Chinese Naval vessel to visit the United States. She arrived in New York City as a part of this very voyage on September 9, 1911, I believe. That was on 9/11/11.
And now...back on topic with the Type 052 vessels.
I still believe that the Type 052D is going to represnt a significant and ongoing addition to the PLAN. It is really the optimization of that 052 class overall in my estimation and I expect to see the PLAN build them in numbers greater than the six Type 052C Lanzhou vessels.
With the new, more pwoerful APARs, with 64 VLS cells that allows for mutliple missile types to be launched, with the new 130mm gun (particularly if it can accomodate any extended range munitions), with the very decent mid-range to close in coverage of the FL-3000N and Type 730 weapons systems, and with its embarked helicopter, it is simply a very credible design for the PLAN. As such, I simply do not see the Type 055 being introduced at this point...there just does not seem to be any pressing need for it goiving all else they are doing.
Either way, the PLAN has come a very long ways in the last ten years.
Well here's my input to this off topic discussion.
There's a bit of interesting history here beyond the circumnavigation attempt. If memory serves, the Imperial Chinese Hai Chi armored cruiser was the first Chinese Naval vessel to visit the United States. She arrived in New York City as a part of this very voyage on September 9, 1911, I believe. That was on 9/11/11.
And now...back on topic with the Type 052 vessels.
I still believe that the Type 052D is going to represnt a significant and ongoing addition to the PLAN. It is really the optimization of that 052 class overall in my estimation and I expect to see the PLAN build them in numbers greater than the six Type 052C Lanzhou vessels.
With the new, more pwoerful APARs, with 64 VLS cells that allows for mutliple missile types to be launched, with the new 130mm gun (particularly if it can accomodate any extended range munitions), with the very decent mid-range to close in coverage of the FL-3000N and Type 730 weapons systems, and with its embarked helicopter, it is simply a very credible design for the PLAN. As such, I simply do not see the Type 055 being introduced at this point...there just does not seem to be any pressing need for it goiving all else they are doing.
Either way, the PLAN has come a very long ways in the last ten years.
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solarz
Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
That's true. This suggests that the whole "circumnavigation" idea was added on after the fact, and that the Hai Chi perhaps never had any circumnavigation plans in the first place.
That's true. This suggests that the whole "circumnavigation" idea was added on after the fact, and that the Hai Chi perhaps never had any circumnavigation plans in the first place.
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Circumnavigation of the globe happened long before the Panama Canal was built, by vessels far less capable than the Hai Chi. They would simply have gone around South America like everyone else did in that time frame.
For whatever reason (no plans, decided it was too long a single stretch alone, maintenance problems/breakdowns...whatever), they apparently did not do it in any case.
Not at all.
Circumnavigation of the globe happened long before the Panama Canal was built, by vessels far less capable than the Hai Chi. They would simply have gone around South America like everyone else did in that time frame.
For whatever reason (no plans, decided it was too long a single stretch alone, maintenance problems/breakdowns...whatever), they apparently did not do it in any case.
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer
Yes.The first Circumnavigation was made almost four centuries before Hai chi's travel.Technically that ship was capable to do it but i doubt that Chinese had plans to do it.To be accurate,i don't know what chinese would gain from that extension of their voyage.
Fame?Circumnavigation was almost a typical thing back then.Ofc not easy but not something really impossible as it was 4 centures ago.
Capabilities?Propably but blue water capabilities have already been proven during that trip.
Come on guys stay on topic.It doesn't really matter whether circumnavigation really happened or not.It's more like a symbolic act.
Yes.The first Circumnavigation was made almost four centuries before Hai chi's travel.Technically that ship was capable to do it but i doubt that Chinese had plans to do it.To be accurate,i don't know what chinese would gain from that extension of their voyage.
Fame?Circumnavigation was almost a typical thing back then.Ofc not easy but not something really impossible as it was 4 centures ago.
Capabilities?Propably but blue water capabilities have already been proven during that trip.
Come on guys stay on topic.It doesn't really matter whether circumnavigation really happened or not.It's more like a symbolic act.
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