052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

is there any documentation identifying that the new main gun is more reliable than the 730 (the old gun)?

The U.S. LCS-5 had a lot of issues w/ jamming and programming with their main gun and that sucker was expensive, and brand spanking new. I hope we don't have the same issues.

Did ppl figure out whether or not the D's VLS is a hot or cold launch yet?

What are those launch pods x 2 right above the launch boat bays to the rear of the ship? counter measures?

What are thsoe laundh pods x 2 in front of the front phase array? depth charges?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

rhino123 said:

I do not believe that they cannot match China's current production rate. The thing is... is there a need for US to do it at the moment? She had excellent warships in both quantity and quality of which China is only beginning to match in term of quality and it would be some years (quite a number of years actually) before China can match the quantity of these warships... and these didn't take into account of the quality of the sailors and crews.

Only in recent years did China actually had the monies or invested very deeply into their Navy and lets face it, it would still be a couple of years before China could muster the same or greater number of crews that are as skillful as the US counterparts.

Having the hardware is one thing... the software should match too... which I believe the Chinese is doing at the moment or they would have coughed out more ships by now.

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Agreed 100% rhino.

The Burke DDG construction continues for the forseeable future. The serial building of the Viginia Class SSN continues (which the PLAN does not match yet).

At the same time, the US has added the Zumwalts to the mix, is building the new Ford Class carrier, the new America class LHA, and the San Antonio class LPD (now nine in the water and two more building).

Now the US is building the Frigate-sized LCS at two shipyards and will be putitng out two of those a year as wellfor a number of years to come.

So the US is not slowing down...but they are more replacing older vessels as opposed to adding to their numbers.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

chuck731 said:

America must build new capacity for naval purposes from ground up.

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Sorry Chuck, this is not so.

The US is currently building all of the ollowing major surface class vessels for the US Navy at shipyards all over the country:

USS Ford Class CVN
USS America Class LHA
USS San Antonio Class LPD
USS Zumwalt Class DDG
USS Burke Class DDG (two yards)
USS Freedom Class LCS
USS Inedependence Class LCS
USS Virginia Class SSN (two yards)
USS Montford Point Class MLP
USS Spearhead Class JHSV

That's 10 classes of vessel being built at yards on all three coasts (Atlantic, Gulf, and Pacific). And these are modern, very high tech yards. It does not include numerous other transport, large Coast Guard Cutter, and other naval builds either at other yards.

There is no need for the US to build its naval warship capability or capacity from the gound up.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Yes, US warship building capacity is larger than implied purely from Arleigh Burke construction rate. But it still amounts to roughly 10-15 hulls of all sizes each year. But the US has very little additional large ship construction capacity beyond what is already being used for her naval construction program that could be leverage to enlarge her naval construction progrsam. Since 1990 the US averaged less than a quarter million tons of ocean going ship construction outside her naval program each year, consisting of maybe 10 hulls a year.

China, on the other hand, has truly enormous additional ship construction capacity beyond what is being used by her current naval program. In 2012 alone, China built 67 million tons of oceanb going merchant shipping consisting of over 1000 hulls. That is to say China currently has enough ship building capacity to produce some what more hulls each year than US did during each year of WWII. But tonnage wise, China can produce twice as much shipping tonnage in one year, as the United States had built during all 5 years of WWII, and WWII defined the zenith of American ship building capacity.

The amount of additional ship construction capacity China can potentially apply to naval construction in the near future absolutely dwarves the amount available to the US in short run.

If the US were to spend, say a few hundred billion dollars, it can catch up in the medium or long run. But since Merchant construction in China is economically competitive while merchant construction in the US is not, Chinese yards can switch hit, and make up for lures in warship construction with competitive merchant construction. While American yards would have to be kept alive by a continuous stream of naval orders. So not only would large scale naval expansion require higher initial investment by the US than by China, keeping the capacity available would also be more costly for the US than for China.

I can be flip, and point out China is at current building hulls faster than America is building dedicated anti-ship ordinance. Yeah Yeah, I know, a JDAM can take out a merchant vessel.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

let's keep this US shipbuilding talk to the appropriate thread.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:

Sorry Chuck, this is not so.

The US is currently building all of the ollowing major surface class vessels for the US Navy at shipyards all over the country:

USS Ford Class CVN
USS America Class LHA
USS San Antonio Class LPD
USS Zumwalt Class DDG
USS Burke Class DDG (two yards)
USS Freedom Class LCS
USS Inedependence Class LCS
USS Virginia Class SSN (two yards)
USS Montford Point Class MLP
USS Spearhead Class JHSV

That's 10 classes of vessel being built at yards on all three coasts (Atlantic, Gulf, and Pacific). And these are modern, very high tech yards. It does not include numerous other transport, large Coast Guard Cutter, and other naval builds either at other yards.

There is no need for the US to build its naval warship capability or capacity from the gound up.

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OT
Marinette, Wisconsin is not on any of those three coasts.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

delft said:

OT
Marinette, Wisconsin is not on any of those three coasts.

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It is if you regard the Great Lakes as a convoluted, infolded portion of the Atlantic coast.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

tphuang said:

let's keep this US shipbuilding talk to the appropriate thread.

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Thanks Tphuang, agreed 100%. Perhaps you can move these latest US Shipbuilding comments over to the US Shipyards thread and I will respond to them there?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

drunkmunky said:

is there any documentation identifying that the new main gun is more reliable than the 730 (the old gun)?

The U.S. LCS-5 had a lot of issues w/ jamming and programming with their main gun and that sucker was expensive, and brand spanking new. I hope we don't have the same issues.

Did ppl figure out whether or not the D's VLS is a hot or cold launch yet?

What are those launch pods x 2 right above the launch boat bays to the rear of the ship? counter measures?

What are thsoe laundh pods x 2 in front of the front phase array? depth charges?

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730? You mean the old 100mm gun?
And of course we have no idea whether it's more reliable. But all new products have teething issues, that goes for the LCS's 57mm gun too, and you can only really judge its reliability with other past products in retrospect after a new weapon has been in service a couple of decades.

Both. They've designed their CCLS VLS for both hot and launch capability.

Those four launchers at the aft are multirole rocket launchers. Can be used to fire countermeasures like flares and chaff, but I think we've also seen them fire depth charge type rockets.

Those white pods at the bow are capsules for the life rafts.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

no_name said:

052D on trial:

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Surprised there are no top view ...yet!

Anyway this is a very very nice ship. A class of its own I would say