052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

If JNCX and later DL can pump out large surface combatants continuously at this rate, 052Ds may soon become the new "054A".
So we've had the PLAN pioneering their first APAR equipped AAW ship in 2003 with 052C, a mass produced modern, internationally competitive frigate in the 054A, emergence of the truly multirole DDG in 052D, and soon, a mass produced number of hulls that is 052D.
I suppose the next watershed moment in PLAN surface combatant procurement will be the 055 cruiser, and the next generation frigate to replace 054A.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:

Well, they launched the first two Type 052Cs in 2003.

It was not until 2010 that they launched the 3rd Type 052C. Since that time, here is what they have done in terms of launching new destroyers:

Type 052C - 3 11/2010
Type 052C - 4 07/2011
Type 052C - 5 12/2011
Type 052C - 6 06/2012
Type 052D - 1 08/2012
Type 052D - 2 12/2012
Type 052D - 3 07/2013
Type 052C - 4 Building
Type 052D - 5 Staging

After the November 2011 launch, they launched six new destroyers in 2 years and 8 months...and that is phenominal. Averaging one launch about every five months!

Click to expand...

That is roughly the same as the average Arleigh Burke construction rate over the last 20 years.

But the Chinese also simulataneously sustained a impressively high 054 and 055 construction rate, which hasn't been matched by the US since the 1970s.

Given that China has many times larger ship building, steel, electronics fabrications capacity than the US, it is probably fair to say they have the ability to sustain an even higher rate than this if they wish to embark on an even larger expansion program.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

chuck731 said:

That is roughly the same as the average Arleigh Burke construction rate over the last 20 years.

But the Chinese also simulataneously sustained a impressively high 054 and 055 construction rate, which hasn't been matched by the US since the 1970s.

Given that China has many times larger ship building, steel, electronics fabrications capacity than the US, it is probably fair to say they have the ability to sustain an even higher rate than this if they wish to embark on an even larger expansion program.

Click to expand...

Has 055 began construction yet?

Also, with US industrial prowess, I do not believe that they cannot match China's current production rate. The thing is... is there a need for US to do it at the moment? She had excellent warships in both quantity and quality of which China is only beginning to match in term of quality and it would be some years (quite a number of years actually) before China can match the quantity of these warships... and these didn't take into account of the quality of the sailors and crews.

Only in recent years did China actually had the monies or invested very deeply into their Navy and lets face it, it would still be a couple of years before China could muster the same or greater number of crews that are as skillful as the US counterparts.

Having the hardware is one thing... the software should match too... which I believe the Chinese is doing at the moment or they would have coughed out more ships by now.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

rhino123 said:

Has 055 began construction yet?

Also, with US industrial prowess, I do not believe that they cannot match China's current production rate. The thing is... is there a need for US to do it at the moment? She had excellent warships in both quantity and quality of which China is only beginning to match in term of quality and it would be some years (quite a number of years actually) before China can match the quantity of these warships... and these didn't take into account of the quality of the sailors and crews.

Only in recent years did China actually had the monies or invested very deeply into their Navy and lets face it, it would still be a couple of years before China could muster the same or greater number of crews that are as skillful as the US counterparts.

Having the hardware is one thing... the software should match too... which I believe the Chinese is doing at the moment or they would have coughed out more ships by now.

Click to expand...

I agree with your assessment. Also China faces no imminent threat to her national security so there is no need to go all in in their naval expansion like the USSR did in the 70s and 80s. PLAN's expansion is very aggresive no doubt BUT not ridiculously aggressive! They can probably dial it up a notch or two if they deem it necessary.

At this point they just want to build enough vessels to keep up with the likes of India, Japan, SK etc and also to have enough vessels to maintain their ever increasing SLOCs as their economy and international trade increase.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Bltizo said:

If JNCX and later DL can pump out large surface combatants continuously at this rate, 052Ds may soon become the new "054A".
So we've had the PLAN pioneering their first APAR equipped AAW ship in 2003 with 052C, a mass produced modern, internationally competitive frigate in the 054A, emergence of the truly multirole DDG in 052D, and soon, a mass produced number of hulls that is 052D.
I suppose the next watershed moment in PLAN surface combatant procurement will be the 055 cruiser, and the next generation frigate to replace 054A.

Click to expand...

I've been wondering if China really needs 055 cruiser. Or should they invest their development in LPD/LHD. Frigate conversion are coming along nicely, but destroyers in terms of numbers are lagging so should they allocate shipywards to construction of Frigates and Destroyers instead of Cruiser.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

kwaigonegin said:

I agree with your assessment. Also China faces no imminent threat to her national security so there is no need to go all in in their naval expansion like the USSR did in the 70s and 80s. PLAN's expansion is very aggresive no doubt BUT not ridiculously aggressive! They can probably dial it up a notch or two if they deem it necessary.

At this point they just want to build enough vessels to keep up with the likes of India, Japan, SK etc and also to have enough vessels to maintain their ever increasing SLOCs as their economy and international trade increase.

Click to expand...

From what i have read today from translated Chinese military websites.

Firstly, some images of the type 054B Frigate are now surfacing, and from what i've seen they look very impressive, if the images turn out to be anything near the real thing.

The 052D Destroyer is expected to be built in a class of around 10 vessels. It was also discussed that though the 052D shared many similarities with the 052C, the major difference is that the electronics and combat systems of the type 052D are quite a major leap forward!...................though we know that, still not sure how many 052D's they will really build.

Still some mutterings of the 055, but no new info.

Yes, and as discussed here today, the Chinese are not in a naval race to compete in numbers with the US, but to be the dominate force in the Asian seas..............or so the Chinese themselves say!

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

steve_rolfe said:

From what i have read today from translated Chinese military websites.

Firstly, some images of the type 054B Frigate are now surfacing, and from what i've seen they look very impressive, if the images turn out to be anything near the real thing.

The 052D Destroyer is expected to be built in a class of around 10 vessels. It was also discussed that though the 052D shared many similarities with the 052C, the major difference is that the electronics and combat systems of the type 052D are quite a major leap forward!...................though we know that, still not sure how many 052D's they will really build.

Click to expand...

I don't think we have anything substantial for the 054A follow on -- we don't even know if it's called 054B! Most we got for it are some CG pictures that may be entirely on the dot or miles away from the real thing. For 055 at least we have some preliminary numbers everyone can agree on.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Bltizo said:

I don't think we have anything substantial for the 054A follow on -- we don't even know if it's called 054B! Most we got for it are some CG pictures that may be entirely on the dot or miles away from the real thing. For 055 at least we have some preliminary numbers everyone can agree on.

Click to expand...

Yes, i agree, nothing substancial on 054B.............was just merely commenting on what is being said on Chinese websites!

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

rhino123 said:

Has 055 began construction yet?

Also, with US industrial prowess, I do not believe that they cannot match China's current production rate. The thing is... is there a need for US to do it at the moment? She had excellent warships in both quantity and quality of which China is only beginning to match in term of quality and it would be some years (quite a number of years actually) before China can match the quantity of these warships... and these didn't take into account of the quality of the sailors and crews.

Only in recent years did China actually had the monies or invested very deeply into their Navy and lets face it, it would still be a couple of years before China could muster the same or greater number of crews that are as skillful as the US counterparts.

Having the hardware is one thing... the software should match too... which I ybelieve the Chinese is doing at the moment or they would have coughed out more ships by now.

Click to expand...

I meant type 056.

American manufacturing prowess in terms of volume and capacity, which had allowed her to be arsenal of democracy during WWII, have faded far more than you think in relation to other powers such as china. America has gone from having 40% of the world's steel making and 70% of the world's ship building capacity to less than 10% of steel, and a negligible percentage of ship building. China now has half of world's steel producing and maybe 35% of the world's ship building capacity.

I think while American manufacturing sophistication is still in most respects higher than what is available to the Chinese, American manufacturing capacity throughout the supply chain have in most respects been far outstripped by china. If push come to shovel, I think china now has much greater immediate capacity to turn out existing design in large numbers. This grants existing current American designs are likely considerably superior to Chinese design in technical sophistication and design sophistication.

But America remains the richer country, and is far more trusted by and better integrated into the developed world and its sources of capital. So America can probably command and deploy the capital needed to in the medium to long term to address the serious short comings in her manufacturing capacity in order to meet the needs of an naval arms race with china. But this means expanding America's production rates would be disproportionally expensive. China could leverage existing supply chain capacity already installed for civilian commercial purposes to support her arms build up. America must build new capacity for naval purposes from ground up.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

rhino123 said:

Has 055 began construction yet?

Also, with US industrial prowess, I do not believe that they cannot match China's current production rate. The thing is... is there a need for US to do it at the moment? She had excellent warships in both quantity and quality of which China is only beginning to match in term of quality and it would be some years (quite a number of years actually) before China can match the quantity of these warships... and these didn't take into account of the quality of the sailors and crews.

Only in recent years did China actually had the monies or invested very deeply into their Navy and lets face it, it would still be a couple of years before China could muster the same or greater number of crews that are as skillful as the US counterparts.

Having the hardware is one thing... the software should match too... which I believe the Chinese is doing at the moment or they would have coughed out more ships by now.

Click to expand...

The idea that China can built but can't operate efficiently is nothing but a sop to western anxiety over the fast paced of china's military advances.

I never believe it one bit. It not like 20 years that Chinese military recruit from peasant and working class background. With the economic windfall and expansion of tertiary education, the pool of intelligent recruit expand exponentially . Coupled with poor jobs prospect and prestige and security of joining the PLA or PLAN. increasingly China is succeeding in improving the quality of their recruits comfortable with computer and modern telecommunication.

Having more intelligent recruits mean easier to teach them to teach them the fine point of military operation. Training will be faster and easier

Nothing in this world is permanent. empire come and go.It is like boxing championship, If you are on the top you are nowhere to go but down . but the challenger will keep arising one after another to replace you when the time come.

Past experience was never good predictor of the future. At the onset of Pacific war. Japan has the largest fleet of Carrier 10 if I am not wrong and has the most experience pilot and admiral. yet as the luck has it ,she missed the 4 US carrier because they were training out on the sea. The rest is history.

The same argument can be said of Wehrmact with their excellent Prussian officer corp and better quality weapons But the Russian weather and Russian grit and stubbornness stop it in their track

Never underestimate your foe .Home before Christmas anyone?

HOME BY CHRISTMAS
Army was in full retreat

I am not saying that China is bend on expansion . She is not . But the moral of the story is, war is unpredictable

[tt_news]=41302&tx_ttnews[backPid]=25&cHash=93be56b127cbf70e844542baf0e1b188#.Uh1kD3_Buk0
The PLA began recruiting college graduates in 2001, with more than 130,000 college graduates serving as soldiers at the end of 2009. From 2009 to 2012, approximately 100,000 college students joined the military each year (China Daily, August 19). This represents perhaps a quarter to a third of all recruits, by this author’s rough estimate. The current emphasis is on increasing quality personnel by focusing on recruitment of college students and graduates. The State Council and CMC recently moved the start