052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

tphuang said:

we will have to wait for 055. Due to propulsion limitations, you can only get something of this size without sacrificing the air defense system. They crammed about as much as they can cram into 052D.

Click to expand...

And I think they did a very good job of it too.

The Type 052D will be a very good, even world-class vessel for the PLAN. It will be a more than adequate escort for its carriers and other high value vessels, and capable of leading SAGs itself very capably.

If the PLAN build 8-12 of them, they will have a very strong DDG force.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:

Now on each side of that you have two small triangles, but since there are two of them, if you put them together you have a another rectangle whose dimensions would be 70 ft x 16 ft, which equals 1,120 ft sq.

Add the two for the total area of the trapizoid. 2,800 + 1,120 = 3,920 ft. sq.

So, as I stated earlier:

Landing Pad Lanzhou = 3,575 ft. sq.
Landing Pad Bukre = 3,920 ft. sq.

Click to expand...

I don't want critisized you, but I think you make a mistake in your equotion. The correct formular for two small triangles should be 70 ft x 8 ft = 560 sq. ft. , because you have to divide the the difference of the width 56 ft - 40 ft = 16 ft by two.

Therefore the Landing Pad of the Burke = 3360 sq. ft.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

duncanidaho said:

I don't want critisized you, but I think you make a mistake in your equotion. The correct formular for two small triangles should be 70 ft x 8 ft = 560 sq. ft. , because you have to divide the the difference of the width 56 ft - 40 ft = 16 ft by two.

Therefore the Landing Pad of the Burke = 3360 sq. ft.

Click to expand...

Yes, that's my point earlier. 052c/d's pad at 3575 sq. ft > Burke's pad at 3360 sq. ft. Therefore, 052c/d's hangar is not small as some people perceived it to be.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:

The values are in feet, not meters. And your values for the Burke are incorrect.

For the Lanzhou, the formula is simple : 65 x 55 = 3,575 sq ft.

For the Burke, you break the trapizoid down into two simple equations to give you the area.

For the straight portion, from the aft forward to the hangar you have one rectangle which is 40 ft x 70 ft which equals 2,800 sq ft.

Now on each side of that you have two small triangles, but since there are two of them, if you put them together you have a another rectangle whose dimensions would be 70 ft x 16 ft, which equals 1,120 ft sq.

Add the two for the total area of the trapizoid. 2,800 + 1,120 = 3,920 ft. sq.

So, as I stated earlier:

Landing Pad Lanzhou = 3,575 ft. sq.
Landing Pad Bukre = 3,920 ft. sq.

Click to expand...

Hate to burst your bubble Jeff, but your calculations were based on incorrect figures.

Here's why: your first equation of 70 x 40 was correct, but your second equation of 16 x 70 was wrong.

It's actually 8 x 70. The base of the trapezium is 56 feet, the top is 40 feet, hence the base is only 8 feet longer than the top AT EACH SIDE, 16 feet in total. If we cut the rectangle of 40ft x 70ft out of the trapezium, we get two triangles at either side with a base of 8ft and a height of 70ft which will combine to form a rectangle of 8ft x 70ft which gives the total area of a Burke's landing space of 3360 sq ft.

It took me a good 20 minutes of drawing diagrams on paper to finally figure out what was wrong; just tells you how easily humans can make silly mistakes.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:

The values are in feet, not meters. And your values for the Burke are incorrect.

For the Lanzhou, the formula is simple : 65 x 55 = 3,575 sq ft.

For the Burke, you break the trapizoid down into two simple equations to give you the area.

For the straight portion, from the aft forward to the hangar you have one rectangle which is 40 ft x 70 ft which equals 2,800 sq ft.

Now on each side of that you have two small triangles, but since there are two of them, if you put them together you have a another rectangle whose dimensions would be 70 ft x 16 ft, which equals 1,120 ft sq.

Add the two for the total area of the trapizoid. 2,800 + 1,120 = 3,920 ft. sq.

So, as I stated earlier:

Landing Pad Lanzhou = 3,575 ft. sq.
Landing Pad Bukre = 3,920 ft. sq.

Click to expand...

Oh...I didn't pay attention to the units and assumed it to be in metre.

As to the calculation, I think the other posters have already explained why the figures in my earlier post are correct.

Burke: 3360 ft2

Daring: 4950 ft2

Lanzhou: 3575 ft2

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:

And I think they did a very good job of it too.

The Type 052D will be a very good, even world-class vessel for the PLAN. It will be a more than adequate escort for its carriers and other high value vessels, and capable of leading SAGs itself very capably.

If the PLAN build 8-12 of them, they will have a very strong DDG force.

Click to expand...

If the challenges of propulsion have been worked out for a larger displacement hull, I rather see 052D be limited to 4 and just start rolling out the next model. 052D really ain't that much different from 052C except for a move in hangar location, new VLS, and new APAR, all features that can be transferred over to the next gen destroyer.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Does anyone see conversions of 052Cs to 052Ds? I don't know if the designs are similar and modular enough to make this possible and more cost-effective than building additional ships. Assuming the 052D package proves significantly more capable of course. I know the 052Cs are still new, just wondering out loud.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

PanAsian said:

Does anyone see conversions of 052Cs to 052Ds? I don't know if the designs are similar and modular enough to make this possible and more cost-effective than building additional ships. Assuming the 052D package proves significantly more capable of course. I know the 052Cs are still new, just wondering out loud.

Click to expand...

It can't IMO. Too much a pain in the a.ss to reconfigure the revolverstyle VLS to the new VLS.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

andyhugfan said:

It can't IMO. Too much a pain in the a.ss to reconfigure the revolverstyle VLS to the new VLS.

Click to expand...

You don't reconfigure, you take one system out and drop the other in its place - if it can be done, and I don't expect that.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

PanAsian said:

Does anyone see conversions of 052Cs to 052Ds? I don't know if the designs are similar and modular enough to make this possible and more cost-effective than building additional ships. Assuming the 052D package proves significantly more capable of course. I know the 052Cs are still new, just wondering out loud.

Click to expand...

IMO it's unlikely, based on past Chinese Navy ship refits.