052/052B Class Destroyers

tphuang

Lieutenant General
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re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I agree with that, only that I would say that NSF is regaining some of the status it had lost.

They would not build a completely new carrier homeport (for potentially two carriers) if they were planning eventuallly to transfer to LIAONING to SSF. SSF will get new-built carriers.

I still think it was an early indication that they decided to assign four 054A to NSF’s 1 Destroyer Flotilla. It had long been known that NSF was getting two (546, 547), the two additional frigates (538, 550) were taken from ESF’s allotment, leaving 6 Destroyer Flotilla to soldier on with just two (548, 549) plus 053H3. This despite that fact that it is 6 Destroyer Flotilla that is getting the four new 052C’s (150-153).

Reportedly, NSF is also getting four 052D’s (117-120), which will perhaps all be built by Dalian.

They are still getting it after SSF. They got 054A because PLAN produced so many 054A that SSF will soon have 2 flotillas of them.

Just looking at geographical situation, what do you think CV-16 can do from stationed at Qingdao?

And yes, 052D will go to NSF, but after SSF gets them first. In this PLAN modernization, evey fleet will eventually get modernized. But the ones with higher priority will get them first.
 

steve_rolfe

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Is there any evidence yet that Dalian has started work on the 052D's yet?

Come to think of it is Dalian building any naval vessels at the moment?
 

escobar

Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

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kroko

Senior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

They are still getting it after SSF. They got 054A because PLAN produced so many 054A that SSF will soon have 2 flotillas of them.

Just looking at geographical situation, what do you think CV-16 can do from stationed at Qingdao?

And yes, 052D will go to NSF, but after SSF gets them first. In this PLAN modernization, evey fleet will eventually get modernized. But the ones with higher priority will get them first.

What is it so special about SSF? they are also blocked by Taiwan, philipines, malaysia and vietnam. Besides, the navies of those countries are outgunned by PLAN. Why should PLAN require carriers and even large destroyers to those waters?

Makes more sense to boost ESF, where they are at the same time somewhat unblocked by japan/south korea and at the same time close enough that they can engage with japan/SK navies which lets face it, are the biggest threat to china, not the philipine navy.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

What is it so special about SSF? they are also blocked by Taiwan, philipines, malaysia and vietnam. Besides, the navies of those countries are outgunned by PLAN. Why should PLAN require carriers and even large destroyers to those waters?

Makes more sense to boost ESF, where they are at the same time somewhat unblocked by japan/south korea and at the same time close enough that they can engage with japan/SK navies which lets face it, are the biggest threat to china, not the philipine navy.

SSF would be responsible for securing China's Sea Lines of Communication to the ME, Africa and Europe in the event of conflict.

They would have no chance if the USN tried it, but against anyone else, they have a decent chance, and will only get stronger as they get new ships and carriers.

The NSF and ESF are mainly local defence fleets with the main job of keeping China's Eastern seaboard safe from hostile sea based attack. The ESF has the added responsibly of taking Taiwan if the need arises, but ultimately, those fleets do not need to be true blue water fleets as they will be operating within range of land based sensors, weapons and aircraft support in all likely combat scenarios.

The SSF is the only one likely to be operating independently far from home in any realistic combat scenarios, so it makes sense to make sure it is the best equipped for independent blue water operations.

The decision to send the Liaoning to the NSF pretty much confirms what I have said all along, in that while the Liaoning is fully combat capable, the PLAN sees it as primarily a training platform and will use it as such unless in extremes. I also think the Liaoning will be significantly weaker than the indigenous Chinese carriers, both in terms of hanger size, ability to conduct CATOBAR ops, and general layout, which again will relegate her to a secondary training role while the new carriers would be first pick for actual combat deployments.

The Liaoning will stay near home waters and focus on training crews and pilots for the first few years of its service. After a few years, once the PLAN has a good handle on carrier ops and the new indigenous carriers start to come online, I would expect either the PLAN to have a full set of crews and pilots trained up ready to crew the new carriers, and/or the Liaoning will have the cream of its crew and pilots stripped out for the new carriers while the Liaoning gets on with training a new batch.
 

escobar

Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

SSF would be responsible for securing China's Sea Lines of Communication to the ME, Africa and Europe in the event of conflict.

They would have no chance if the USN tried it, but against anyone else, they have a decent chance, and will only get stronger as they get new ships and carriers.

The NSF and ESF are mainly local defence fleets with the main job of keeping China's Eastern seaboard safe from hostile sea based attack.

Yes i think PLAN is going for a half area denial fleet (NSF, ESF) and the other half USN style (SSF).

The ESF has the added responsibly of taking Taiwan if the need arises, but ultimately, those fleets do not need to be true blue water fleets as they will be operating within range of land based sensors, weapons and aircraft support in all likely combat scenarios.

But as NSF and ESF are getting the same ships as SSF, don't you think ultimatley they will be capable of blue water operations?
In recent months, exercises from NSF flottillas have increased in the west pacific...
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Yes i think PLAN is going for a half area denial fleet (NSF, ESF) and the other half USN style (SSF).



But as NSF and ESF are getting the same ships as SSF, don't you think ultimatley they will be capable of blue water operations?
In recent months, exercises from NSF flottillas have increased in the west pacific...

Oh, all the fleets are being built up to be blue water fleets with blue water ships. The only issue is one of priority in terms of which fleet gets the new ships first and how many they get altogether.

I would not be surprised if in a few years, the SSF gets restructured and much of the new blue water ships from,the SSF gets split out to form a new 'Far Sea Fleet' home based in Pakistan or somewhere else in or near the Indian Ocean where they would be able to better respond to any attempts to disrupt China's shipping lanes.
 

escobar

Brigadier
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I would not be surprised if in a few years, the SSF gets restructured and much of the new blue water ships from,the SSF gets split out to form a new 'Far Sea Fleet' home based in Pakistan or somewhere else in or near the Indian Ocean where they would be able to better respond to any attempts to disrupt China's shipping lanes.

I hope that they are planning for overseas bases. but for that, china must thrown away to the dustbin this strange policy of non-interference which prevents it from establishing bases abroad.
 

Lion

Senior Member
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I hope that they are planning for overseas bases. but for that, china must thrown away to the dustbin this strange policy of non-interference which prevents it from establishing bases abroad.

Establishing overseas base is sensitive issue. Very also likely sour good relationship. Even Philippine desperate for US to side with them for Shoal island dispute hesitant to re invite US to have a permanent bases on their shore.

But here is my suggested solution.
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/china-mobile-offshore-base-6320.html
 

jobjed

Captain
re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I hope that they are planning for overseas bases. but for that, china must thrown away to the dustbin this strange policy of non-interference which prevents it from establishing bases abroad.

Uhh... you wouldn't like people sticking their noses into your business, so why do it to them? Non-interference is a virtue too rare nowadays, more countries need to adopt it and GTFO of others' business.
 
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