052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

jackliu said:

Wait, they can fit 4 missile in 1 tube? What is the diameter of each cell?

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There is no evidence at all that they can fit 4 missiles into one CCL tube. I'm just hypothesizing. And this is another reason why I'm disappointed in the choice of CCL. It is not as easy a task to quad-pack a CCL tube as it is to quad-pack a standard VLS tubse, and also the amount of wasted internal space rises dramatically when you quad-pack a CCL tube if you use the concentric ring exhaust method.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

well, this new series of pics just confirms my previous measurements, from the last series of pics. if each container is indeed 850 mm wide, one eight cell module is almost exactly 4 by 3 meters. plus or minus three centimeters. That is a lot bigger than sylver VLS and still a fair deal bigger than mk41 VLS.

even if we give the constructors the benefit of doubt that the lid is merely 855 by 855 mm (which seems like a very close call, and is probably bigger than that), we still get a very large eight cell module of 3,8 meters by 2,85 meters.

If they were so keen on self contained cells, they should've went with four-cell modules. This seems just too big and too cumbersome for most ships.

edit: there is a new photo on cdf which also nicely shows the surrounding infrastructure. the document said 40 cm wide access space, but that may have been refering to space between containers and bay wall or something. it seems that when the module is put on the infrastructure around the VLS bay, there is another 25cm around the edges of the VLS bay. That coincidently is very, very similar to both sylver and mk41.

Basically, a 4 module vls bay would then, with all the structural support, be 8,5 meters by 6,5 meters.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Mysterre said:

The exhaust is either a hollow 'vent ring' around the missile, or possibly no ring but the 4 corners are used to vent instead:

If the internal length/width of this CCL cannister is 850mm, a quad-packed missile would have about 220mm to work with minus whatever the ventilation ring requires. By comparison, an ESSM has a diameter of 254mm. We are probably looking at a quad-packed short range air defense missile with these kinds of lengths. A PL-12 has a diameter of 203mm. Maybe it could fit, and if a booster is developed for it, could possibly achieve medium-type ranges. It would definitely have to use the corner venting method though.

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I've been wondering about the whole CCL method as well, and I'm not sure if the original document actually mentions anything about the VLS being circular, but rather that the venting system was self contained (?)

In that sense, couldn't the vents instead be a "square inside a square," with the space between the squares acting as the vent (instead of using a circular or corner method).
In that same vein, quad packed missiles not each have their own vent as you depicted, but rather share the same overall vent that a large, single missile would use instead, thus conserving more space.

like so (the actual venting space may be a little bit wider, who knows, but the point is the actual space the missile is contained in is a square rather than a circle or octagon ala the corner venting method)


[obviously my missiles do not quite fit the cell snugly, it was a very haphazard use of paint]
[missiles would have placed with fins in an x rather than + as well. ]

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

it would definitely be possible, and i would say probable as it seems more logical, to make the hot launch containers square. perhaps cold launch containers are also square from the outside but then have circular inner walls. also, not to have the quad packed missiles share one exhaust would be to waste a great opportunity.

if hot launch containers were square then each container, depending on for which kind of missile it is designed, could have its own exhaust-to-missile space ratio. hq16 cointainer could have 450 mm by 450 mm missile area, with a square "ring" around it 200mm wide. quad packed container could have 600 mm by 600 mm missile area with 125 mm wide square ring around it. Since each of the missiles in the quad-pack require less of an exhaust area, the outer exhaust area could also be smaller, thus allowing for relatively a lot of space for the missile themselves.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I think my main point is that based on what (little) we know about this new VLS, there are still a few ways they can make the space work.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer


article original come from Shipborne weapon magazine.
the ship carry 32 launched tube,aside from HQ-16,which has 70km max range,it also carry ASW ASROC type missile.
it not provide enough information.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

hardware said:

View attachment 6844
article original come from Shipborne weapon magazine.
the ship carry 32 launched tube,aside from HQ-16,which has 70km max range,it also carry ASW ASROC type missile.
it not provide enough information.

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It's speaking of the Type 054A FFG, not the Type 052C or Type 052D.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:

It's speaking of the Type 054A FFG, not the Type 052C or Type 052D.

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Very nice, you can read Chinese now. (kidding)

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

jackliu said:

Very nice, you can read Chinese now. (kidding)

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Hehehe...something about the "054A" written right in there amongst the Chinese characters...and the specs quoted of course.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

I doubt the 052D VLS can quad pack HQ-16 let alone HQ-9. Maybe it'll be a PL-12 or the new PL-ASR (PL-10) variant?

For the Mk.41 it is the RIM-162 ESSM that can be quad packed :




Sylver VLS can only Quad-pack the Crotale NG (VT-1) :



PS: the LM ExLS systems -