052/052B Class Destroyers

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Well that's because if the picture is legit its obviously taken from afar thus the image would not be good. The black and white is just them playing with the contrast to bring out more definition.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Mysterre said:

Wow, I didn't even see that photo! Hmmm...

I have to say, it does make me suspicious that they wouldn't just post an unadulterated photo, since if this picture were real, who the hell would want to see a blurry black and white modification of the original instead of the original itself? OTOH a picture like this one would be very easy to PS. We'll just have to wait for some clearer photos of the deck.

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I think this photo is modified because they don't want to show the original photo so as to not draw the wrath of authorities who want to have tea.
Remember the first J-20 photos, they were all highly modified, cut out as well.

Also the mid-section VLS seems a little too close to the walls. Any ascending missiles would do a fair bit of damage to those walls (over the long term) as well as any exposed electronics or other hardware on the roofs. Also, this middle section VLS takes up an ENORMOUS amount of internal space that was previously already occupied, and IMO would almost certainly necessitate a lengthening of the hull to accommodate this VLS. If what we are seeing is legit, it looks like 8x8=64 air defense missiles. If no FCR's get installed, we are looking at active terminal homing and either an HQ-9 adapted to hot-launch or a new active missile altogether. Frankly I'm hoping for a new active missile that can accept a booster so they can send that puppy out to 200+ km.

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The photo I posted showing the way the VLS could be set up I think would give enough clearance.
Also, note the yagi antenna's mast has been moved forwards -- the only real reason I can imagine them doing that so dramatically is to give clearance for the aft VLS. In fact I think the entire structure which the yagi mast sits on may have been moved ever so slightly forwards.




The insides of this ship must be very cramped, given the hull does indeed not to have been widened or dramatically stretched. There's a new main gun, 32 cell VLS in the aft, and the new massive APARs which may well be the largest fixed PARs currently installed on any surface combatant in the world. All these new and improved systems must take up a lot of space... Or who knows, maybe miniaturization since 052C has compensated.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Could the back mid section be designed for the launchers to be lowered into the ship superstructure when not in use, like on land based vehicles?

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

no_name said:

Could the back mid section be designed for the launchers to be lowered into the ship superstructure when not in use, like on land based vehicles?

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That would be an unnecessary complication and not even the stealthiest of ships have used such a way of maintaining their VLO profile.

From these pictures I am hard pressed to think those aft white rectangles are anything other than VLS cells. And that's without the previous rumours that there would be two 32 cell VLS systems, aft and bow...

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Bltizo said:

052C already had infrastructure for ARH missiles? I thought HQ 9 was SARH.?

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I dont know about army hq9 (which can still be active guided and that big array is just for targeting and tracking, but not terminal guidance), but i hightly doubt naval hhq9 is SARH. There simply isnt any sort of radar on 052c that could guide those missiles. There are no dedicated illuminators on the ship and there is no way those huge APARs can be used for terminal illumination. Those things are S-band, and i know of no example in history where any sort of missile was guided by such radars. X band yes, but not S band, which is an order of magnitude bigger.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

no_name said:

Maybe they could squeeze 48 HQ-9 in front when they change to more compact hot launch, and put 32 HQ-16 VLS at the back. Then you'd have the anti-air capability of type 054A and type 052C in one go. This also means that they won't need the type 054A for the carrier groups as they might not be fast enough for top speed requirements anyway, so you can potentially make the carrier group more compact.

Maybe they will have one of the other type 51 ships in the battle group for carrying the anti-ship armament, which reserving this vessel purely for anti-air role.

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I remember seeing pictures of a model of SD10 based SAM system called Tianlong, with a range of 50 km, on display at a trade show. That should be an actively guided missile and could go on here to fill the second layer defense.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

The photos were obviously taken from inside the shipyard so whoever took it likely already broken state secret laws and could face prosecution if identified, that's why the picture is highly altered to show as little details of the ship as possible to not alert the authority.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

AssassinsMace said:

I guess it's saying there's another 32 cell VLS in there.

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The second picture has words "gaps in the middle" to imply the existence of VLS. However, I believe the appearance of gaps is just anti-corrosion paint that was applied onto the weld seams. In my opinion, a recess like that is very awkward to have a VLS, not to mention the valuable internal volume the system would take up. I think some fan boys are having a dream as usual, applying their 2D thinking without consideration of internal equipments or the crew's living space.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Bltizo said:

052C already had infrastructure for ARH missiles? I thought HQ 9 was SARH.?

And I think the question as to whether this "new" VLS ( it may well be the same VLS aboard 054A) is meant to fire HQ-9 orHQ-16, or both, is dependent on whether this new VLS can fire both cold and hot launched missiles, or whether HQ-9 can be modified for hot launch (not impossible as land based HQ-16A is cold launched while naval HHQ-16 is hot launched).
Further, it is interesting that there does indeed seem little to no space for launch racks for ASHMs, so this can mean one of two things – one, the PLAN decided their new DDG doesn't need dedicated surface strike capability and can rely on 64 SAM and expected VLA like weapons. Or, the new VLS can fire AShMs as well, which as repurcussions for its ability to fire LACMs (as many AShMs are similar in size to LACMs). Of course we've been speculating this may be a new common VLS for a while now, years ago when we first heard of 052D. I suppose it's another waiting game to see how the die roll.

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HQ - 9 is TVM.

and what is people smoking lately...

It's pretty obvious from testing ship 891 that they have another longer length cold launch VLS in the works. other than the one on 054A right now.

re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

i.e. said:

HQ - 9 is TVM.

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Not possible unless 052C's AESA is X-band. All indications are that it is S-band. Therefore HQ-9 would necessarily have to be ARH.