The War in the Ukraine

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
In my opinion the choice in tank comes down to the shortage of trained soldiers. T-62s are much simpler to operate. Russia has thousands of T-72s in storage which could be brought out. They have been sitting outside exposed to the elements but the same could be said about T-62s.

Tank v tank comparisons are pointless, any T-62 deployed now is unlikely to face any Ukrainian tank. America has already hoovered the world of surplus Soviet tanks, the only way Ukraine gets better tanks is if NATO decides to give them Abrams.

I don't think NATO wants to see Russia lose in the Ukraine, that would make nuclear war a certainty. They just want to damage Russia as much as possible to make Ukraine a pyrrhic victory.
 

abc123

Junior Member
Registered Member
@memfisa is saying that just because you see T-62’s getting deployed to Ukraine doesn’t mean the large stockpile of T-80 series tanks can’t be deployed or doesn’t exist at all.
English isn't my first language, but I understood that as well.
What I'm trying to say is that, if you use T-62 instead of T-72 and 80 ( that you have and can deploy ), you have to be: a) dumb, b) having a death wish or c) wanting that Russia looses the war. Now you can choose whatever option you like more.

In my opinion the choice in tank comes down to the shortage of trained soldiers. T-62s are much simpler to operate. Russia has thousands of T-72s in storage which could be brought out. They have been sitting outside exposed to the elements but the same could be said about T-62s.

Tank v tank comparisons are pointless, any T-62 deployed now is unlikely to face any Ukrainian tank. America has already hoovered the world of surplus Soviet tanks, the only way Ukraine gets better tanks is if NATO decides to give them Abrams.

I don't think NATO wants to see Russia lose in the Ukraine, that would make nuclear war a certainty. They just want to damage Russia as much as possible to make Ukraine a pyrrhic victory.
Average Russian reserve soldier being mobilised had his conscription military training before 10-15-20 years. Do you really think they used more T-62s then than T-72/80?

On the other hand, while both T-72 and T-80 are very suspectible to and modern anti-tank system, T-62 is also suspectible for even non-modern ones- allmost for anything stronger than light missile launcher.
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
Zelensky claims that the information about the Russians were withdrawing from Kherson was a fake to lure the Ukranians in.


Most of the stuff I read about Russia withdrawing came from Ukrainian sources. Is Elensky claiming that Ukrainians are working for Russians?
Average Russian reserve soldier being mobilised had his conscription military training before 10-15-20 years. Do you really think they used more T-62s then than T-72/80?

On the other hand, while both T-72 and T-80 are very suspectible to and modern anti-tank system, T-62 is also suspectible for even non-modern ones- allmost for anything stronger than light missile launcher.
No, my point is that the T-62 is simpler to operate. Even if the reservists being deployed were trained on tanks 10+ years ago most are likely going to be treated as fresh recruits.

If what I'm saying isn't true, what's the alternative explanation? Russia has thousands of newer T-72s, T-80s in storage. Why pull out T-62s unless they think it's better suited for the task at hand?
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
English isn't my first language, but I understood that as well.
What I'm trying to say is that, if you use T-62 instead of T-72 and 80 ( that you have and can deploy ), you have to be: a) dumb, b) having a death wish or c) wanting that Russia looses the war. Now you can choose whatever option you like more.
You believe the deployment of a tank type is based on a single reason. However I view things much more differently. In my opinion, when we consider Russia’s economy, pre war readiness, current combat operations, and history, I believe the T-62’s were deployed due to these reasons:
1. It is hard to use relatively advanced tanks that received little care out of storage when you consider the fact that Russia couldn’t afford to mothball them in the past. Bringing them back into service takes time and money.
2. Despite the reason above, given the nature of the Ukrainian army who uses T-64Bv’s and T-72m’s and when you take in consideration of what @sheogorath said here about the T-62M’s armor,
The T-62M has better add-on armor than Ukrane's T-72M received from Poland, Bulgaria and the Czechs. Let's not forget that T-72M actually have thinner and not-as-good composite armor as the T-72A's.

View attachment 100181

View attachment 100182

For comparison, this is the glacis of a polish T-72M

View attachment 100183

Here you can see a T-62M getting hit with an ATGM over one of the composite add-ons with the crew surviving and making an escape


So, considering that the Ukranians don't have modern APFSDS rounds in any of their tanks, in certain scenarios a T-62 might be good enough. And a T-62M with upgraded thermals and rangefinders will have a detection advantage over Ukraine's T-72M and what's left of the T-64 fleet outside of the Bulats.
the T-62M is sufficient enough for tank on tank battles
3. Combined arms is the key to modern warfare. A tank getting taken out by infantry doesn’t mean a tank sucks. It means that the commander of the tank platoon failed to coordinate with infantry, recon and artillery support. This scenario happened before in the 1973 Yom Kippur War in which Israeli tanks were getting smashed by Egyptian infantry’s Soviet ATGM’s in the beginning stages of the war. The Israelis would then change their tactics and combine the efforts of the armor, recon, artillery and infantry to take on this new threat.

In short, T-62M’s are good enough for the current war. Are they ideal? No, but they do the job well enough. Does that excuse Russia’s poor maintenance of their T-80 and T-72 fleet? No, Russia should have mothballed a decent chunk of them at the very least. The reasons for that failure are totally economic ones that are off topic.
 

abc123

Junior Member
Registered Member
Most of the stuff I read about Russia withdrawing came from Ukrainian sources. Is Elensky claiming that Ukrainians are working for Russians?

No, my point is that the T-62 is simpler to operate. Even if the reservists being deployed were trained on tanks 10+ years ago most are likely going to be treated as fresh recruits.

If what I'm saying isn't true, what's the alternative explanation? Russia has thousands of newer T-72s, T-80s in storage. Why pull out T-62s unless they think it's better suited for the task at hand?
Maybe they during last 30 yearshave cannibalised the most of them to keep the operational ones running, so they can't use them now? It would make sense, considering how cash stripped Russia was during greater part of last 30 years...
 

tabu

Junior Member
Registered Member
Nope, it is a laser rangefinder
I thought about it.


It could most likely be a laser for the gun's barrel curvature angle sensor. In principle I have an idea how it could be implemented. Anybody have a clue?
 

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tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
It seems that Russia may have succeeded in holding off Ukrainian forces until mud season, giving them a chance to reposition and bring up the reserves. The Ukrainian forces were unable to achieve the breakthrough in Kherson that they wanted to and now we wait for winter to fully set in before large scale operations re-commence.


This is what the terrain is like now due to rain.
 

sheogorath

Colonel
Registered Member
It could most likely be a laser for the gun's barrel curvature angle sensor. In principle I have an idea how it could be implemented. Anybody have a clue?

The one in the front of the gun is the reflector part of the muzzle reference system. That one does measure the barrel bending, but as you can see, T-62M don't have one.

T-90M's do, though.
 
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