J-10 Thread IV

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johncliu88

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I do have a question regarding to the IRST pod in front of the J-10CE canopy. Would you think the Pak pilots used it to detect the Rafales in a passive way?
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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Gloire_bb said:
We don't disagree here; i said the same thing. It isn't of primary importance capability-wise. The difference is that you deny importance of airframe altogether. Which is assumption of primacy of uncontested superiority.
There's different base BVR agility point(i.e. mean combat speed), i.e. they're better capable of performing BVR maneuvers (WVR ironically less so, even if it was the original goal) and carrying oversized payloads from get go.
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I didn't deny the importance of the airframe altogether -- I said in comparison with sensors/networking/EW/weapons, the airframe/kinematic performance is at best a secondary if not tertiary in relevance for consideration of what differentiates a 4.5th gen aircraft from a 4th generation aircraft.



Gloire_bb said:
...because this is where gains and mean international level is at (and where eurocanards frankly fail from time to time).

But precisely because no one bothers(or can) improve proper 4 gen aircraft to the exact same airframe standard (it isn't possible with base airframes, and it isn't worth it to design another non-stealth MRF if you already have one) - there's a certain distinction between them.

Just as now there's a 3rd wave of similar aircraft, which are even more ahead of the 4th gen at their base (KF-21, TEDBF; one can even consider adding su-57 here).

There's a term + and ++, which is used to specifically upgrades of existing airframes.
Which is equally important - as it turned out over Ukraine(and before than over Serbia), 4th gen aircraft can't even touch 4++ ones.
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Until those aircraft emerge in force, we can rediscuss how to comprehend the difference between 4th and 4.5th generation (heck if one wants a "4.75th gen" that might even be viable).

However as it stands, for "4.5th generation" aircraft, the "0.5th gen" difference lies primarily weighted in advancements of sensors/networking/fusion/EW/weapons, and very little weighted in advancements of kinematic performance.



Which puts me back to the original question -- do you still believe J-16 is not a credible and thorough 4.5th generation aircraft?
 
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T.C.P

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The biggest hurdle to Chinese military exports is that the global South is very very dependent on the West for exports, so the West has too big an influence on the military acquisition programs ( and pretty much everything else) of our countries. As China gets more developed, it needs to start importing more lower end stuff from the third world. Bangladesh for example, something like 80% of our exports is to the US and the EU and we are at their mercy. If we could somehow change the balance and make China the destination of even 20-30% of our total exports, we could stand up to the West more.
 
Deino

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T.C.P said:
The biggest hurdle to Chinese military exports is that the global South is very very dependent on the West for exports, so the West has too big an influence on the military acquisition programs ( and pretty much everything else) of our countries. As China gets more developed, it needs to start importing more lower end stuff from the third world. Bangladesh for example, something like 80% of our exports is to the US and the EU and we are at their mercy. If we could somehow change the balance and make China the destination of even 20-30% of our total exports, we could stand up to the West more.
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IMO actually any export depends on- besides politics - mostly on the issue of a guaranteed aftersales support as described here in reply to Q3:

J-10 Thread IV

Raw footage of the J-10 test flight 歼10试飞原始影像【独家】_哔哩哔哩_bilibili This is new leak i would say
www.sinodefenceforum.com
 
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T.C.P

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Deino said:
IMO actually any export depends on- besides politics - mostly on the issue of a guaranteed aftersales support as described here in reply to Q3:

J-10 Thread IV

Raw footage of the J-10 test flight 歼10试飞原始影像【独家】_哔哩哔哩_bilibili This is new leak i would say
www.sinodefenceforum.com
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Bangladesh has had no complaints about Chinese after-sales support and we operate a lot of Chinese gear. My comment was more about how China's existing and potential customers are vulnerable politically to the West. Like if the US pressures us against buying J-10, there is very little we can do as we are too dependent on them for our exports. While Europe is our biggest export destination, they usuually dont bother much with stuff like this, but the US increasingly does. If we could increase our exports to China, then the US would have less leverage over us.

This is common for many countries in the Global South; we are all too dependent on the West for making our money. As China moves onto more and more advanced manufacturing, it would be great if they started outsourcing the less valuable production to smaller developing countries and importing those goods from us.
 
lcloo

lcloo

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T.C.P said:
The biggest hurdle to Chinese military exports is that the global South is very very dependent on the West for exports, so the West has too big an influence on the military acquisition programs ( and pretty much everything else) of our countries. As China gets more developed, it needs to start importing more lower end stuff from the third world. Bangladesh for example, something like 80% of our exports is to the US and the EU and we are at their mercy. If we could somehow change the balance and make China the destination of even 20-30% of our total exports, we could stand up to the West more.
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One thing about the South is that most of them were colonies of the West. During colonial times, these colonies exported their produce, mostly agricultural products and minerals mainly to their colonial masters.

The mentality that the West is still the best in technology has been passed down from colonial time, added by tens of thousands of students sent by these colonies/ex-colonies to universities and colleges in their former colony masters countries, these students absorbed Western supremacy values and tend to be friendly to their former masters. The poor state of China's technology in the past does not help either in the minds of current rulers/high officials who were trained in the West, they are still thinking the West is the best.

My country is ex-British colony, we used to export huge amount of rubber and tin among others to UK, helping their economy substantively. Britain is still a major destination for our current government to send students there for higher studies. Majority of government officials and even private sectors still think of Chinese product, including military products, as inferior, until only very recently they are starting to change their minds.

J10C moment in Pak-Ind air battle will change their mind, slowly.
 
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pokepara

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China’s J-10C Fighter Jet To Make Debut At Paris Air Show 2025
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According to exhibition plans, China’s booth (C-258/D-258 in Hall 2) will feature the J-10CE as part of a broader “Modern Aviation System” display. Rather than showcasing the fighter in isolation, Chinese aerospace authorities have opted to present it alongside other key systems including:
  • The PL-15E missile combat system
  • The CR929 wide-body passenger aircraft
  • The AC352 helicopter
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This is kind of like inviting your wife's lover over for dinner after you caught her cheating.
 
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