The post on xitter now leads with "DEBUNKED."
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- Thread starter bd popeye
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Never bet against Huawei
I think we are too spoilt with China's long term strategy that we think every other country must be somewhat retarded in comparison.
It's just China is able to make the most advantageous moves a lot of the time given huge limitations and set the standard too high. The Galwan thing in 2020 is probably a prime example. India looks real stupid now. Even with Taiwan, China managed to get some positives out of it and can freely launch rockets and shells over Taiwan for"testing purposes" and somehow no one cares.
Can't expect Iran to do the same. What is hoped is at least when it is genuinely needed, Iran can still deliver something.
This is why China doesn't believe in chest thumping much. No need to make it so dramatic. Better keep quiet and strike when it is right. Somehow opponents managed to be arrogant enough to let their guards down a lot.
It's just China is able to make the most advantageous moves a lot of the time given huge limitations and set the standard too high. The Galwan thing in 2020 is probably a prime example. India looks real stupid now. Even with Taiwan, China managed to get some positives out of it and can freely launch rockets and shells over Taiwan for"testing purposes" and somehow no one cares.
Can't expect Iran to do the same. What is hoped is at least when it is genuinely needed, Iran can still deliver something.
This is why China doesn't believe in chest thumping much. No need to make it so dramatic. Better keep quiet and strike when it is right. Somehow opponents managed to be arrogant enough to let their guards down a lot.
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China brokering peace between two traditionally antagonistic major countries in the Middle East has value in the sense that it shows China as a responsible participant in the region that can actually bring a semblance of peace in the Middle East, which creates a direct contrast with the US. That itself has a lot of diplomatic value.
Honestly this conversation reeks of the typically Chinese liberal dissident ignorance in that they think China doing diplomacy with African countries or Russia or in the Middle East reflects badly on China because China isn't able to perform the same kind of diplomacy with Western countries, and that Western countries are more "civilized" and wealthy so by extension China doing diplomacy with poorer and weaker countries means China is also poor and weak. It's just a immature schoolyard clique-based perspective, diplomacy between major countries shouldn't operate on this logic.
Honestly this conversation reeks of the typically Chinese liberal dissident ignorance in that they think China doing diplomacy with African countries or Russia or in the Middle East reflects badly on China because China isn't able to perform the same kind of diplomacy with Western countries, and that Western countries are more "civilized" and wealthy so by extension China doing diplomacy with poorer and weaker countries means China is also poor and weak. It's just a immature schoolyard clique-based perspective, diplomacy between major countries shouldn't operate on this logic.
If you have free time. I would suggest that you go on Reddit and enjoy the western meltdown to the news that Huawei has caught up with Nvidia.
Same old copium. These inferior Chinese can't invent. They must have copied to, these Chinese are faking it.
For the white western world, they simply can't tolerate a reality where they are no longer the only big players. They have been brought up in an environment where they were always deemed to be Superior.
Now watch the global south and any country that welcomes Chinese product benefit from it while the west suffers from its own arrogance.
Same old copium. These inferior Chinese can't invent. They must have copied to, these Chinese are faking it.
For the white western world, they simply can't tolerate a reality where they are no longer the only big players. They have been brought up in an environment where they were always deemed to be Superior.
Now watch the global south and any country that welcomes Chinese product benefit from it while the west suffers from its own arrogance.
Honestly I'm getting too tired to care sometimes. They don't want to believe it then that's their problem. Reality doesn't care either way. Just like all the guys who were on the wrong side of history and ended up in its dustbin, nobody cares what they have to say. The caravan still moves on.
It's not about sucking up to the West. It's more about not entangling yourself with dead weights. Transactional relations with Iran (e.g. oil for investment) are fine. But symbolic gestures around "shared destiny" or "brotherhood" could drag you into conflicts of which you have little understanding, and which could prove to be costly, as the US has learned in its various attempts at backing failed states (e.g. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan).
China has historically avoided such entanglements by being transactional. Recently, however, it has been more forward with "no limits friendships" and various attempts at pulling together counter-Western alliances in response to Western containment efforts. It is natural to seek friends when your enemies are trying to actively isolate you, but just like in real life, making "bad friends" just because you're feeling vulnerable and don't want to be alone, isn't going to make things better.
I think China generally overestimated Iran's capabilities, and this is clear from reading this board - the cognitive dissonance in the last month or two as Iran's strategic environment collapsed around it and we realized just how deep Western power goes, was honestly insane to watch. If Chinese leadership knew that Iran was so thoroughly infiltrated, I question whether they would've even bothered with bringing it into the SCO and BRICS. Maybe they still would have, on a purely transactional basis, but its value certainly wouldn't have been played up as it was here.
It should be if you are serious about assuming leadership of the global south, and so far what we are seeing is that the west will still be allowed to bomb the shit out of you and all it should be expected from China is some posturing.
Funny considering China is also doing a shit job at what it allegedly -can- do. No serious attempt at rallying the global south at the UN or ICJ, promote reforms or actually push the Arab countries it does have sway over to put up and stop gargling anglo balls.
Sure, though at least Russia for all their blunders in the war, at least they made good on their promise of going to war over Ukraine joining NATO.
Why should even China consider luring such a diseased society out of the US camp?. They don't see the chinese any more as humans than they see the palestinians, this is like trying to argue about luring Nazi Germany.
It will be next time it tries to claim any sort of leadership role in anything related to the third world.
At least for all the failures that lead to its demise, the USSR scared the west enough that would measure heavily about pulling shit like this on the regular and the open, even against its own population because they knew the soviets would have no qualms on filling the void and proping up actual opposition to them. Even China at some point, didn't either, even if sometimes it did at the behest of western interests, like Pol Pot.
No amount of soft power will get you that if you don't also act from time to time. Then again, even China doesn't seem too bothered about what's happening to its own citizens in western countries, the cusp of it being the whole Meng Wanzhou debacle.
I don't get it. Geopolitics is defined by maximum gain minimum effort. For China, they just have to do nothing and make the world view them more favourably.
Indonesia and Malaysia, where people were polled to be pro-US are now pro-China after witnessing Israeli genocide.
This might be a shock to you but china doesn't have much sway over Arab countries. The only country it has sway over is North Korea and Pakistan to some extent.
In the end, China has a lot of options to choose from while the west, in particular Europe doesn’t really have the ability to really matter in real events unlike the USA and to a minor extent Israel and that is mostly due to the fact that they are willing to cross lines most nations would bulk at. But in the end, which of the two sides is spending the most weapons, men and capital in the last two years only to ruin its image throughout the world as a power along with reducing its stockpiles to the point where many nations are thinking twice. It certainly isn’t China and ultimately true that from to time to time the U.S. does make an impact but in all seriousness most of these actions are one off and it reveals a capability that should’ve been reserved for China instead of being shown right now in the open.
To be cold on this, Chinese interest is in the Middle East being the focus as the longer the U.S. and Israel is dragged into this conundrum and the longer they fight in Ukraine, the less might they will have to confront China in the near future. If the rest of the Middle East has to burn along with Israel (provide China still has access to much of its resources) while the USA ends up in a civil war situation where the entire nation breakdown in a matter similar to that of that movie that was released earlier this year, that in itself would be a win for China if China still maintains its unity and capability completely intact so then China can eventually dictate terms, especially when the hegemon has throughly ruined itself to the point where even to its Allie’s, their credibility is completely dead. This is a waiting game for China to reap the benefits of Americas stupidity when in its original state, should have given China a much harder time
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