antiterror13
Brigadier
the main thing is whether you got it or not
Zhuhai Airshow 2016
- Thread starter SinoSoldier
- Start date
Skywatcher
Captain
Frankly, if the Chinese did copy American gear, that'd pretty much zero out any part of the DoD budget for Asia Pacific spending/capabilities.
For example, the F-35 is highly customized for US needs and doctrine, and if the Chinese actually 'copy' it (to any meaningful sense of 'copy'), they'll be up the proverbial creek, since Chinese needs and AF doctrine are radically different from ours.
Not to mention that in order to copy/reverse engineer something complex as a F-35, even with a lot of documentation gleaned from espionage, they'd have a working model in... 2025, at the very earliest.
In the 21st century, the R&D role of defense industrial espionage is not to copy the other guy's product (even if technologically superior) but to use it to make informed decisions about choices in your own research and development, quality control, and place of said equipment in doctrine. (A lot of this also applies to commercial espionage, users of industrial spies often don't want to copy stolen designs exactly, they're looking for advantages in business negotiations, or a roadmap on how they might design a product suited to *their* needs).
For example, the F-35 is highly customized for US needs and doctrine, and if the Chinese actually 'copy' it (to any meaningful sense of 'copy'), they'll be up the proverbial creek, since Chinese needs and AF doctrine are radically different from ours.
Not to mention that in order to copy/reverse engineer something complex as a F-35, even with a lot of documentation gleaned from espionage, they'd have a working model in... 2025, at the very earliest.
In the 21st century, the R&D role of defense industrial espionage is not to copy the other guy's product (even if technologically superior) but to use it to make informed decisions about choices in your own research and development, quality control, and place of said equipment in doctrine. (A lot of this also applies to commercial espionage, users of industrial spies often don't want to copy stolen designs exactly, they're looking for advantages in business negotiations, or a roadmap on how they might design a product suited to *their* needs).
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Various anti stealth radar if it true it will invalidate the stealth concept and billion of dollar investment goes down the drain
Digital Battlespace
Zhuhai 2016: Stealth aircraft on China’s radar
10th November 2016 - 10:56 by in Zhuhai
China displayed its technological prowess with a number of air surveillance radars at the in China.
Among them were ‘cutting-edge’ radars - as described by Chinese media - purportedly able to detect hostile US-built stealth aircraft such as the and .
The major supplier of radars to the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is the China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC), and a priority has been devising new radars to counter threats from fifth-generation fighters. Both the PLA and CETC showed off a number of radar types in outdoor exhibits.
Returning to Zhuhai was the JY-27A 3-D long-range surveillance/guidance radar. Operating in the VHF band, it adopts 2-D electronic scanning in azimuth and elevation. It is the PLA’s first active phased array system, and it is stated to be resistant to jamming and with ‘high measurement accuracy’. The trailer-mounted radar is in service and has been spotted in Shigatse, Tibet, for example.
There are unverified claims that the radar can pick up hostile stealth fighters at ranges of up to 500km. If these reports are accurate, such Chinese radars could swiftly nullify the advantages of stealth aircraft. The JY-27A is also designed to address the ballistic missile threat.
The JY-26 Skywatcher-U, an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar operating in the VHF/UHF frequencies, debuted at the Zhuhai Air Show in 2014. Developed by the 14th Institute (Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology, or NRIET), the trailer-mounted radar allegedly has a 500km detection range and can track 500 targets simultaneously.
Whilst in development in Shandong, operators claimed that it detected USAF F-22 fighters flying over South Korea. CETC states, ‘The radar is designed to meet air defence needs for decades to come,’ and that it is robust against jamming and electronic counter-countermeasures.
Oddly, in Zhuhai this year CETC showed a completely different JY-26 radar design without the distinctive ‘bubble wrap’ transmit receive modules seen in the 2014 example. It is unclear whether this change relates to mislabelling, disinformation or redesign, but the manufacturer stated the JY-26 was ‘developed to be a mainstay radar in a national air defence system for long-range surveillance and tactical missile defence’.
From left to right: YLC-2A, JY-26 and JH-18. Note that CETC labelled the centre radar JY-26, even though it is completely different to the design shown in 2014.
The YLC-8B and SLC-7, both emanating from the Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology, integrate traditional mechanical scanning with phased-array technology. The long-range, early-warning YLC-8B is a UHF-band 3-D radar that appeared in Zhuhai two years ago. It utilises full coherent digital-pulse compression and moving target detection technology.
The SLC-7, meanwhile, operates in the L-band, with digital scanning in azimuth and elevation, as well as mechanical scanning in azimuth. This was the first time this radar had been shown to the public.
The PLA said it was ‘mainly for medium- and high-altitude, medium- and long-range target surveillance and indication tasks’. It is said to be able to detect stealth aircraft, cruise missiles and air-to-ground munitions out to a range of 300-400km.
A CETC official was , ‘The SLC-7 is the export model. We are going to target potential clients such as Pakistan, Egypt, Iran and some Middle East countries that see the USAF as their enemy. Of course, the same model used by the PLA Air Force is much more advanced than the SLC-7.’
The YLC-2A is a solid-state, L-band, 3-D long-range surveillance radar mounted on an 8x8 truck. CETC stated, ‘It can be used as a national-level backbone intelligence radar providing comprehensive information…’ It can also serve as a target indication radar for air defence weapons.
The truck-mounted JH-18 is a multifunction 3-D low-altitude surveillance radar dedicated to detecting air and sea surface targets. It is a phased-array system that fills gaps left by more powerful surveillance radars.
The JY-50 is a 2-D passive radar for air surveillance and early warning in critical areas.
Yet another radar system was the JY-50, this being a 2-D passive system. The PLA said it was ‘mainly for air surveillance and early warning in silence of vital and critical areas’. This truck-mounted digital radar is claimed to have an ‘excellent stealth target detection capability’.
China Electronics Corporation (CEC) is another radar manufacturer. The REL-4 is a long-range 3-D radar that operates in the L-band. This mechanically scanned system is used for target guidance and air surveillance. CEC said, ‘It can integrate and manage information from several radars to complete data fusion and to form an area network.’
It is unclear which radar types have been deployed by the PLA on its South China Sea islets, though they have certainly been deployed there to monitor airspace. There is genuine fear that China will unilaterally declare an air defence identification zone there in the future.
Although there was no mention of it at the Zhuhai show, NRIET is working on a radar utilising quantum technology, according to the PLA Daily. Such quantum-based radars mounted on vehicles or aircraft could detect stealthy aircraft at long ranges.
CETC reported in September that the country’s first single-photon quantum radar system could detect stealthy aircraft at a 100km range using quantum entanglement. DARPA and Lockheed Martin are investing in similar radar technologies.
CETC is working with scientists at the University of Science and Technology of China in Hefei, Anhui province, which has achieved many breakthroughs in quantum physics, including developing the world’s first quantum satellite.
With regional countries such as India, Japan and South Korea joining the US in inducting stealth fighters in coming years, China’s radar capabilities, whether hyped up or not, will give them pause for thought.
The exhibition of these radars at the Zhuhai Air Show also shows what technology is also available to export clients. It must be noted too that the technology utilised by the PLA will always be more capable than what is offered to foreign customers.
Digital Battlespace
Zhuhai 2016: Stealth aircraft on China’s radar
10th November 2016 - 10:56 by in Zhuhai
China displayed its technological prowess with a number of air surveillance radars at the in China.
Among them were ‘cutting-edge’ radars - as described by Chinese media - purportedly able to detect hostile US-built stealth aircraft such as the and .
The major supplier of radars to the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) is the China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC), and a priority has been devising new radars to counter threats from fifth-generation fighters. Both the PLA and CETC showed off a number of radar types in outdoor exhibits.
Returning to Zhuhai was the JY-27A 3-D long-range surveillance/guidance radar. Operating in the VHF band, it adopts 2-D electronic scanning in azimuth and elevation. It is the PLA’s first active phased array system, and it is stated to be resistant to jamming and with ‘high measurement accuracy’. The trailer-mounted radar is in service and has been spotted in Shigatse, Tibet, for example.
There are unverified claims that the radar can pick up hostile stealth fighters at ranges of up to 500km. If these reports are accurate, such Chinese radars could swiftly nullify the advantages of stealth aircraft. The JY-27A is also designed to address the ballistic missile threat.
The JY-26 Skywatcher-U, an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar operating in the VHF/UHF frequencies, debuted at the Zhuhai Air Show in 2014. Developed by the 14th Institute (Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology, or NRIET), the trailer-mounted radar allegedly has a 500km detection range and can track 500 targets simultaneously.
Whilst in development in Shandong, operators claimed that it detected USAF F-22 fighters flying over South Korea. CETC states, ‘The radar is designed to meet air defence needs for decades to come,’ and that it is robust against jamming and electronic counter-countermeasures.
Oddly, in Zhuhai this year CETC showed a completely different JY-26 radar design without the distinctive ‘bubble wrap’ transmit receive modules seen in the 2014 example. It is unclear whether this change relates to mislabelling, disinformation or redesign, but the manufacturer stated the JY-26 was ‘developed to be a mainstay radar in a national air defence system for long-range surveillance and tactical missile defence’.
From left to right: YLC-2A, JY-26 and JH-18. Note that CETC labelled the centre radar JY-26, even though it is completely different to the design shown in 2014.
The YLC-8B and SLC-7, both emanating from the Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology, integrate traditional mechanical scanning with phased-array technology. The long-range, early-warning YLC-8B is a UHF-band 3-D radar that appeared in Zhuhai two years ago. It utilises full coherent digital-pulse compression and moving target detection technology.
The SLC-7, meanwhile, operates in the L-band, with digital scanning in azimuth and elevation, as well as mechanical scanning in azimuth. This was the first time this radar had been shown to the public.
The PLA said it was ‘mainly for medium- and high-altitude, medium- and long-range target surveillance and indication tasks’. It is said to be able to detect stealth aircraft, cruise missiles and air-to-ground munitions out to a range of 300-400km.
A CETC official was , ‘The SLC-7 is the export model. We are going to target potential clients such as Pakistan, Egypt, Iran and some Middle East countries that see the USAF as their enemy. Of course, the same model used by the PLA Air Force is much more advanced than the SLC-7.’
The YLC-2A is a solid-state, L-band, 3-D long-range surveillance radar mounted on an 8x8 truck. CETC stated, ‘It can be used as a national-level backbone intelligence radar providing comprehensive information…’ It can also serve as a target indication radar for air defence weapons.
The truck-mounted JH-18 is a multifunction 3-D low-altitude surveillance radar dedicated to detecting air and sea surface targets. It is a phased-array system that fills gaps left by more powerful surveillance radars.
The JY-50 is a 2-D passive radar for air surveillance and early warning in critical areas.
Yet another radar system was the JY-50, this being a 2-D passive system. The PLA said it was ‘mainly for air surveillance and early warning in silence of vital and critical areas’. This truck-mounted digital radar is claimed to have an ‘excellent stealth target detection capability’.
China Electronics Corporation (CEC) is another radar manufacturer. The REL-4 is a long-range 3-D radar that operates in the L-band. This mechanically scanned system is used for target guidance and air surveillance. CEC said, ‘It can integrate and manage information from several radars to complete data fusion and to form an area network.’
It is unclear which radar types have been deployed by the PLA on its South China Sea islets, though they have certainly been deployed there to monitor airspace. There is genuine fear that China will unilaterally declare an air defence identification zone there in the future.
Although there was no mention of it at the Zhuhai show, NRIET is working on a radar utilising quantum technology, according to the PLA Daily. Such quantum-based radars mounted on vehicles or aircraft could detect stealthy aircraft at long ranges.
CETC reported in September that the country’s first single-photon quantum radar system could detect stealthy aircraft at a 100km range using quantum entanglement. DARPA and Lockheed Martin are investing in similar radar technologies.
CETC is working with scientists at the University of Science and Technology of China in Hefei, Anhui province, which has achieved many breakthroughs in quantum physics, including developing the world’s first quantum satellite.
With regional countries such as India, Japan and South Korea joining the US in inducting stealth fighters in coming years, China’s radar capabilities, whether hyped up or not, will give them pause for thought.
The exhibition of these radars at the Zhuhai Air Show also shows what technology is also available to export clients. It must be noted too that the technology utilised by the PLA will always be more capable than what is offered to foreign customers.
Well you are right in saying all nations at one time or the other "copy" or emulate what is they percieve to be better then what they got and there is nothing wrong with that, no sense in re-inventing the wheel when it had already been invented, improve on it. The problem is there are people out there,especially the western press,who report about everthing that China builds or manufacture is a copy of someone's innovation is outright insulting. Has anyone ever commented on what the Koreans are doing eventhough they are at the bleeding edge of some technologies, I miss-took the front grill and it's emblem of a Hyundai Genesis for a Bently. To say the J20 is stolen technology from the Rafale and Typhoon, only a redneck would buy into it.
Equation
Lieutenant General
OMG...I love her already! Gentlemen I believe I've found the woman of my dream.
Yes, I get exactly what you are saying, the question to you is.... why does it matter what the media says? When they accuse China or stolen tech, does it stop China from progressing?
I don't blame the Western media's for its bias, because here is how media works. For media to not be biased in a certain topic, it's only possible when when both side of the position to have an equal amount of power/representation to push back for/against their own or other sides's narrative. Thus all people have chance the hear each side's argument.
However when it come to China in the Western media... China does not have any power to push back western media's narrative, because they are not part of the western media. Therefore when the anti china side early on establish an argument for China in any position it will became the "truth/reality". And once a reality or a truth has been established, the rest of the media will follow each other like sheep endlessly repeating it. And when you repeat something with enough times, that talk-point will became truth/reality. This is exactly why all the media is predicting a 90%+ Hillary victory, or well over 85% of people believe Iraq has WMD. Because Trump people pissed off the media, and Saddam does not have lobbying power in US politics.
So please don't blame the West for its media's bias... thats just the way it works. The key is keep yourself educated, always be skeptical of what you have read. But don't go full Alex Jones conspiracy.
And in the end for China... so what if western media biased? Chinese are still innovating their technology base in indigenous R&D and reverse engineering the combination of the 2. What does it matter how other people talks about China?
If it bothers you... then don't be, because at from your own perspective, does the media says bad things about china hurt your personal finance or well being? probably not, so stop caring what other people says. Live your own life.
well, it is not really that many people here give a dim to what the media says so they argue against. But rather people got really annoyed by someone who constantly brought up the nonsense from these media. It is like during your childhood some kids constantly "jump on" your face, eventually you will be annoyed enough to punch him in his face. We are adult, so we are supposed to be more resilient to those childish tactic, but everyone's nerve has a limit, so the "obsesses".