Z-20 (all variants) thread

[gelgoog]

I think just branding this as a Black/Sea Hawk clone is a misnomer. It might *look* like one externally but...
- the engines are more powerful
- it uses fly by wire technology
- it has 5 rather than 4 rotor blades which means it has more lift

It is a brand new helicopter. Might as well the comparing the H-6K to the H-6 at this point.

 

[MwRYum]

I think just branding this as a Black/Sea Hawk clone is a misnomer. It might *look* like one externally but...
- the engines are more powerful
- it uses fly by wire technology
- it has 5 rather than 4 rotor blades which means it has more lift

It is a brand new helicopter. Might as well the comparing the H-6K to the H-6 at this point.

To most common Joe/Jane that's the only/1st thing that came to their mind.

Hell, if Z-20 mounted 2 gatlings on the side, a refueling probe extended like that of USAF's Pave Hawk, and if PLA extend their new low-vis paint scheme to their rotary assets, 10 bucks say 80%+ of people would call it Pave Hawk in the first 5 seconds.

But for us, we can always tell which is which when observes the following:

1. front canopy (2 glass, UH-60 series use 3)
2. engine exhausts (no IR suppression exhaust on Z-20)
3. paint job (semi-gloss on Z-20, mat on UH-60 series)
4. insignia (high-vis on Z-20, low-vis on UH-60)

I won't add rotor blades despite it's obvious because we've seen fake photos of Z-20 in the past...

 

[by78]

Z-20s belonging to the 75th Group Army participating in a rapid assault exercise.

 

[by78]

 

[ohan_qwe]

What is the reason for developing Z-20 when Z-18 exist? Is Z-20 significant cheaper to offset development and logistics costs or do Z-20 fit where Z-18 is too big/heavy? The flight characteristic seems to be better on the Z-18 and the Russians seem happy with Mi-8 sized without having a UH60 sized.

 

[gelgoog]

What is the reason for developing Z-20 when Z-18 exist? Is Z-20 significant cheaper to offset development and logistics costs or do Z-20 fit where Z-18 is too big/heavy? The flight characteristic seems to be better on the Z-18 and the Russians seem happy with Mi-8 sized without having a UH60 sized.

It is a lot cheaper. The Z-20 is a twin engine helicopter while the Z-18 is a triple engine helicopter. The Mi-8 is twin engine also.
You have to compare the Z-18 with other highly expensive helicopters like the AW101 Merlin or the CH-53E series.
It was never going to be a mainline helicopter.

By US numbers they got more than triple the amount of Blackhawks/Seahawks per service vs either the Chinook (Army) or the CH-53 (Navy)

 

[ohan_qwe]

The Mi-8 is twin engine also.
You have to compare the Z-18 with other highly expensive helicopters like the AW101 Merlin or the CH-53E series.
It was never going to be a mainline helicopter.

Empty weight is 5ton for UH60 7ton for Z-18/Mi-8 and 15ton for CH-53E. Is there any estimate of cost for Z-18 vs Z-20? Couldn't 3 lower performance engines be cheaper than 2 high power engines? Why didn't China just buy/copy Mi-8 otherwise?

 

[KevinG]

Empty weight is 5ton for UH60 7ton for Z-18/Mi-8 and 15ton for CH-53E. Is there any estimate of cost for Z-18 vs Z-20? Couldn't 3 lower performance engines be cheaper than 2 high power engines? Why didn't China just buy/copy Mi-8 otherwise?

You must think about the bigger picture. Maybe Mi-8 is good and cheap enough for the army. The Navy needs something like S-76 anyway. And Chinese military wants every piece of their weapon made in China if possbile.

 

[ohan_qwe]

Then it's that Z-20 can do something that Z-18 can't and not a price problem. Like fit in the hangar of a ship. Do Z-20 fit in 054/052 but Z-18 don't?

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Then it's that Z-20 can do something that Z-18 can't and not a price problem. Like fit in the hangar of a ship. Do Z-20 fit in 054/052 but Z-18 don't?

Z20 with its low profile is air transportable and Z18 is not That is very important design requirement. .Another thing Z20 is smaller and therefore able to land on destroyer deck and Z18 is not . More economical to operate than Z18
Another thing for insertion of SOF Z20 more suitable. In fact the American silent helicopter is based on UH 60