Z-10 thread

[Hendrik_2000]

Did the documentary mention the role that Kamov had in designing the helicopter?

I don't think Kamov did the detail design Kamov did the preliminary design since Kamov own the simulating software. China does not own any software at that time and you cannot buy off shelve
It specify the performance requirement of the engine, rotor etc, give general lay out of the heli, aerodynamic requirement etc
By the time it come to detail design Kamove does not have any involvement
But China did the detail design(structure,control,aerodynamic) and select and manufacture their own component

 

[Deino]

But I think no-one would deny that the external configuration is from Kamov.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

But I think no-one would deny that the external configuration is from Kamov.

I already said general layout But the production model deviate slightly from the original design

 

[Hyperwarp]

Here is the Kamov design. The Earliest prototype were the closest to it, but weak engines meant the current version of the Z-10 is seriously cut down in both sensor suite, armor and IR suppression (exhausts) . Only the Z-10H has the full sensor suite.

Posted at Key Publishing by TR1 -

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I have admit, the Kamov original design is damn good looking.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

I am not sure about weak engine though Interesting article about Z10ME in this article they said the engine will be new and raised the output to 1200 Kw which is 1600 SHP sound like WZ 16 output

China To Unveil Apache Helicopter Rival At Zhuhai Air Show
Our Bureau

02:50 PM, September 21, 2018

11209

Chinese Z-10ME helicopter
China will unveil its Z-10ME attack helicopter at the Zhuhai Air Show in November, billed as a low-priced alternative to the US-made Apache attack helicopter but with similar firepower and engine thrust.

Chinese state-run media reported today that the Z-10ME was an improved version of the Z-10 in use by ground and air forces of the People's Liberation Army.

A new engine will be installed that may increase the chopper's maximum power from 935 kilowatts to 1,200 kilowatts. The Z-10ME also has improved mobility, protection and firepower, the article said.

Z-10 medium attack helicopters can be adapted to the desert and the sea, Global Times on Thursday quoting military expert Song Zhongping.

"Many countries in the Middle East, Southeast Asia and South America are in need of medium attack helicopters cheaper than the US-made AH-64 Apache but with sufficient firepower," Song said.

Song referred to the Z-10 as a cost-effective choice, over which China enjoys full intellectual property rights. "Therefore, we (China) can offer effective after-sales service and even accept loans and some technology transfer," Song said.

The PLA has had the Z-10 for about a decade and the Z-10ME could now be offered to the global market with potential buyers including Pakistan, Thailand, Malaysia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait expected to show interest.

Interestingly, China's biggest customer for arms, Pakistan recently selected Turkey's ATAK combat helicopter, billed as another Apache competitor, over the Chinese Z-10, presumably as the Turkish chopper better met Islamabad's requirements.

 

[Hyperwarp]

I am not sure about weak engine though Interesting article about Z10ME in this article they said the engine will be new and raised the output to 1200 Kw which is 1600 SHP sound like WZ 16 output

***

WZ-10 prototypes were powered by the Pratt & Whitney PT6C (67C?) but the production versions had to shift to WZ-9. So, they had to cut down on the original design. We won't see the full potential of the Z-10 design until the appropriate engines are ready. WZ-9 is 1,000 kW compared to the 1200+ kW of the WZ-16. The Z-10 design has plenty of room to grow.

 

[Deino]

Honestly, how could the T129 or Z-10 (5 - 5.5t) be rated an Apache rival (7.5 - 10t) ???

That would be like calling the C919 a rival to the A380 or B747.

 

[Franklin]

I presume that the Z-10ME is the export version of the uprated Z-10K. I don't think the engine is the WZ-16 but rather an improved version of the WZ-9 or maybe the WZ-10 that is now in use with the Z-20. The performance specs don't match up and the WZ-16 is for the Z-15 helicopter that has significant French imput. But this is the first confirmation of any kind that we have that the Z-10 has recieve a uprated engine.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

I presume that the Z-10ME is the export version of the uprated Z-10K. I don't think the engine is the WZ-16 but rather an improved version of the WZ-9 or maybe the WZ-10 that is now in use with the Z-20. The performance specs don't match up and the WZ-16 is for the Z-15 helicopter that has significant French imput.

Nope the performance did match the WZ spec Can't use WZ 10 too big WZ9 is already upgraded so there is limit of how far can you upgrade Going from 950 Kw to 1200 Kw using the same design is impossibility. 20% performance improvement? i It is joint design and not license copy Safran design the hot part and AVIC design the rest But it is manufacturer in China completely including the hot part and license separately

From Safran website

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The WZ16 is a new-generation turboshaft in the 1,500 to 2,000 shp power class. It features a remarkably compact modular architecture, a best in class power to weight ratio with a low cost-of-ownership. Compared to the competition, it offers a 10 % lower fuel consumption.

WZ16 will be the first helicopter engine to be certified in parallel, both in China by CAAC (Civil Aviation Administration of China) and in Europe under Ardiden 3C designation, by EASA (European Aviation Safety Agency) under the Ardiden 3C designation. The EASA certification for the Ardiden 3C is expected by end of 2017, and the CAAC certification for the WZ16 in 2018.

 

[Franklin]

Nope the performance did match the WZ spec Can't use WZ 10 too big WZ9 is already upgraded so there is limit of how far can you upgrade Going from 950 Kw to 1200 Kw using the same design is impossibility. 20% performance improvement? i It is joint design and not license copy Safran design the hot part and AVIC design the rest But it is manufacturer in China completely including the hot part and license separately

From Safran website

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The WZ16 is a new-generation turboshaft in the 1,500 to 2,000 shp power class. It features a remarkably compact modular architecture, a best in class power to weight ratio with a low cost-of-ownership. Compared to the competition, it offers a 10 % lower fuel consumption.

WZ16 will be the first helicopter engine to be certified in parallel, both in China by CAAC (Civil Aviation Administration of China) and in Europe under Ardiden 3C designation, by EASA (European Aviation Safety Agency) under the Ardiden 3C designation. The EASA certification for the Ardiden 3C is expected by end of 2017, and the CAAC certification for the WZ16 in 2018.

What do you mean the WZ-9 has already been upgraded ? The WZ-9 is an engine that was developed more than a decade ago. Considering the advances that China's aviation industry made the last decade why wouldn't they be able to get 25% more power out of that engine ?