Z-10 thread

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Deino

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... even more surprising since I thought they were rejected from the Pakistan Army Aviation contender. So why are they still in Pakistan and even more why should they take part in the parade?
 

timepass

Brigadier
They are still in Pakistan?

I believe (not sure) these are old photos ... probably last year prior to the parade....


I thought they got sent back already?

As per reports that different batches were used by PA for evaluation....hence they were on rotations regularly..


... even more surprising since I thought they were rejected from the Pakistan Army Aviation contender.

Its never rejected..... PA send their feed backs for tailored Z10s for PA....
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
Those photos of Z-10 helicopter gunships are from Pakistan Day parade and celebrations of March 2017. Last reports have suggested that the Z-10s were returned to China, late last year. These however unconfirmed reports.

There is strong support for the Z-10s in Pakistan Army, however they are being met by stiff resistance of those who back the Turkish T-129s. The attack helicopter for PAA has been somewhat of a mystery in many ways as there has not been an official announcement for such a procurement plan, whereby defense contractors of various countries would present their bids.

The lack of such a procurement approach suggests that there Pakistan Army wants to weigh in all its options.

Personally, I would regard Z-10 purchase over the T-129s. Sure it's underpowered, however Pakistan Army ought to work closely with their Chinese counterparts to look into ways of reaching the PAA requirements for helicopter gunships. The Z-10s would not pose a risk in the event that there are sanctions imposed on Pakistan. Whereas the T-129s would see history repeat itself as Pakistan Air Force suffered due to the F-16s. A helicopter gunship forms an integral part of an Army's offensive capabilities and ought to be procured based on comprehensive assurances that such weapons' platforms would not be under risk by any santions imposed on the country.
 

MwRYum

Major
Those photos of Z-10 helicopter gunships are from Pakistan Day parade and celebrations of March 2017. Last reports have suggested that the Z-10s were returned to China, late last year. These however unconfirmed reports.

There is strong support for the Z-10s in Pakistan Army, however they are being met by stiff resistance of those who back the Turkish T-129s. The attack helicopter for PAA has been somewhat of a mystery in many ways as there has not been an official announcement for such a procurement plan, whereby defense contractors of various countries would present their bids.

The lack of such a procurement approach suggests that there Pakistan Army wants to weigh in all its options.

Personally, I would regard Z-10 purchase over the T-129s. Sure it's underpowered, however Pakistan Army ought to work closely with their Chinese counterparts to look into ways of reaching the PAA requirements for helicopter gunships. The Z-10s would not pose a risk in the event that there are sanctions imposed on Pakistan. Whereas the T-129s would see history repeat itself as Pakistan Air Force suffered due to the F-16s. A helicopter gunship forms an integral part of an Army's offensive capabilities and ought to be procured based on comprehensive assurances that such weapons' platforms would not be under risk by any santions imposed on the country.
That's because Pakistan simply can't wait for China to come out the debugged verison of Z-10 and deliver them, as by what I understand, Pakistan's demand for attack helo at this time was rather urgent. Look, even "if" and "when" China got their ideal version of Z-10 sorted out and put into production today, probably you'd be looking at the first Pakistani unit delivered no earlier than 2020.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Those photos of Z-10 helicopter gunships are from Pakistan Day parade and celebrations of March 2017. Last reports have suggested that the Z-10s were returned to China, late last year. These however unconfirmed reports.

There is strong support for the Z-10s in Pakistan Army, however they are being met by stiff resistance of those who back the Turkish T-129s. The attack helicopter for PAA has been somewhat of a mystery in many ways as there has not been an official announcement for such a procurement plan, whereby defense contractors of various countries would present their bids.

The lack of such a procurement approach suggests that there Pakistan Army wants to weigh in all its options.

Personally, I would regard Z-10 purchase over the T-129s. Sure it's underpowered, however Pakistan Army ought to work closely with their Chinese counterparts to look into ways of reaching the PAA requirements for helicopter gunships. The Z-10s would not pose a risk in the event that there are sanctions imposed on Pakistan. Whereas the T-129s would see history repeat itself as Pakistan Air Force suffered due to the F-16s. A helicopter gunship forms an integral part of an Army's offensive capabilities and ought to be procured based on comprehensive assurances that such weapons' platforms would not be under risk by any santions imposed on the country.

exactly right..... T-129 is not really Turkish .... the engine is American/British and the design is from Italy ... so good luck with that PAA :)
 

timepass

Brigadier
That's because Pakistan simply can't wait for China to come out the debugged verison of Z-10 and deliver them, as by what I understand, Pakistan's demand for attack helo at this time was rather urgent. Look, even "if" and "when" China got their ideal version of Z-10 sorted out and put into production today, probably you'd be looking at the first Pakistani unit delivered no earlier than 2020.

exactly right..... T-129 is not really Turkish .... the engine is American/British and the design is from Italy ... so good luck with that PAA :)

That's the very reason PAA is going for mix pack of Gun Ship Attack Helicopters.....below is the acquisition list (not final) which was posted earlier...

Later when tailored Z10 available to PAA, the numbers will grow further.....


Pakistan going to induct 90 - 100 Gun Ship Attack Helicopters in next 3 - 4 years...

40 - T129s
25 - Z10s
15 - MI35s
15 - Bell AH-1Z Viper

A versatile combination......T129s will be jointly produced in Pakistan....

Pakistan already have a fleet of 50 Bell AH-1F/S Cobra & 06 IAR 330 Puma..
 

MwRYum

Major
That's the very reason PAA is going for mix pack of Gun Ship Attack Helicopters.....below is the acquisition list (not final) which was posted earlier...

Later when tailored Z10 available to PAA, the numbers will grow further.....
Then we're looking at a logistical nightmare, and that's the least of Pakistan's worries...because even if Pakistan actually putting chips on Z-10, it'd still a decade before the first unit leave the production line. If that's the case, better off to initiate a joint venture in Pakistan to have a Z-10 airframe integrate with whatever engines you chaps picked, plus other sub-systems that'd fit into the bill and purpose.
 

timepass

Brigadier
Then we're looking at a logistical nightmare, and that's the least of Pakistan's worries...

No.... If you see the list PAA is using AH-1s/MIs since decades, so they have already well established logistical setup .... only few upgrades will be needed, particularly for AH-1Zs....

While T129s will be jointly produced in Pakistan....

it'd still a decade before the first unit leave the production line.

A decade.... No my friend....at max 2 - 3 years.


If that's the case, better off to initiate a joint venture in Pakistan to have a Z-10 airframe integrate with whatever engines you chaps picked, plus other sub-systems that'd fit into the bill and purpose.

Exactly.... PAA is very closely working with Chinese counterparts...
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
Having browsed the CDF orbat section, i counted 18 12-ship units of z10 and 14 12-ship units of z19 in some 15 or so regiments. Would those numbers be correct? If so, that'd amount to 168 z19 and 216 z10 deployed to frontline units. (with probable another dozen or two in various training/development units)
 
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