Z-10 thread

[Preux]

Interesting stats.

But where did they come from and how reliable are they?

The 23mm has certainly been speculated, but was it ever confirmed by official Chinese sources?

The 1 ton weapons load is also news to me. With each HJ10 weighing around 50kg, 16 would only be 800kg, well within the 1 ton load, yet we have never seen Z10s carry so many at once.

The missile launch rail rack also weighs a decent amount, just from eyeballing I'd say each would be in the region of 60-100 kg, so we are talking about a 240kg+ as a minimum, add to that the 23mm shells (to take for an example - 23x152mm, each shell - 190 grammes, up to 30x165mm - 380 grammes. Assuming a modest 200 rounds of 23x152mm, is already 38 kg, plus weight of belt , then too, the '1 tonne' weapon load may also be a rough figure (it really should be, it would be most unusual if maximum spare weigh is nice round number), and it becomes clear why a full 16 ATGM load out may be impractical - though of course, if load structure is strong enough (and it should be), then you can achieve higher weapons load by reducing fuel load. That comes with its own problems.

 

[Franklin]

All army aviation units are now equipped with Z-10 attack helicopters.

The Z-10 is weaker in terms of engine capacity, ammunition-carrying ability and firepower than the Z-9 ? It must be another misquote, misprint or misspoke incident in the media like the 1000 Y-20 quote.

Army gets advanced, new combat helicopters

Choppers designed for anti-tank missions, now also have air-to-air fighting capability

The People's Liberation Army has equipped all of its ground force aviation units with advanced WZ-10 combat helicopters, according to PLA media.

Several WZ-10s have been delivered to an aviation brigade of the PLA 13th Group Army under the Western Theater Command, the military's TV news channel reported.

This means that all of the Army's aviation units now have this advanced attack helicopter, the report said.

The deliveries also marked the 30th anniversary of the establishment of the Army's aviation force and opened a new chapter in the force's development, it added.

The Army's aviation wing was formed in October 1986 with a regiment equipped with a combination of domestically manufactured helicopters with old technologies and a few imported advanced ones.

For more than two decades, the backbone of the PLA's attack helicopter teams was formed by the WZ-9, which was developed based on the French Eurocopter Dolphin. The Army did not have a dedicated combat helicopter until 2011, when the first WZ-10s were believed to have entered service with the PLA.

Senior Colonel Xu Guolin, deputy chief of the PLA Army's Aviation Equipment Bureau, told the news channel all of the group armies will have at least one aviation brigade or regiment.

According to a military white paper released in 2013, the PLA Army had 18 group armies at the time, but it is unclear if some of these have been merged or disbanded during troop cuts introduced at the start of this year.

The WZ-10 is developed and produced by Changhe Aircraft Industries Group, a subsidiary of Aviation Industry Corp of China, the country's leading aircraft manufacturer. It made its public debut in November 2012 at the 9th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition, also known as the Zhuhai Air Show.

Aviation industry sources said the helicopter was designed primarily for anti-tank missions, but now has a secondary air-to-air combat capability.

Wu Ximing, chief designer of the helicopter at Changhe Aircraft Industries, said the WZ-10 has superior maneuverability and combat compatibility compared with the WZ-9, although it is a little bit weaker in terms of engine capacity, ammunition-carrying ability and firepower.

Wu Peixin, an aviation analyst in Beijing, said the PLA Army now has a strong force of dedicated combat helicopters thanks to the service of the WZ-10 and WZ-19, another attack helicopter that is less powerful than the WZ-10.

"The Army now needs more medium-lift, multipurpose helicopters such as the US Army's Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk," he said. "This helicopter is capable of performing both combat operations and transport tasks."

Gao Zhuo, a military observer in Shanghai, said the PLA Army needs at least 3,000 helicopters, especially heavy-lift transport types and multipurpose models.

Western defense publications speculate that the PLA Army's aviation force has nearly 1,000 helicopters.

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[Iron Man]

We've already seen the Z-10 flying around loaded with 4 full racks of munitions while the Z-9 can only manage 2, so yes, this author is clueless.

 

[by78]

A different version of this was posted before, but that was a grainy magazine scan. This is much clearer...

(2048x1293)

 

[kriss]

What's that big seems wooden stick thing?

 

[superdog]

What's that big seems wooden stick thing?

Sensor for airspeed and directional measurement.

It has to be like that because traditional fixed pitot tube is too inaccurate at the speed and maneuverability range of an agile helicopter.

 

[Jeff Head]

A different version of this was posted before, but that was a grainy magazine scan. This is much clearer...

(2048x1293)

Very nice pic!

Good comparison here:

 

[SinoSoldier]

Very nice pic!

Good comparison here:

View attachment 32278

View attachment 32279

It is without a shred of doubt that the Apache outclasses the Z-10 (and most of its competitors) in virtually every manner: payload, electronics, armor, agility, and armament. This, of course, owes to its very powerful turboshaft engines. A decent powerplant paves the way for superior armor plating (as well as IR deflectors near its engine exhausts), more payload, higher thrust-to-weight ratio, and the ability to carry a MMW radar that allows over-the-horizon targeting (which also works in poor weather conditions).

What the Z-10 lacks at this very moment is a powerful turboshaft. Without it, the helicopter risks being left in the dust by its Western and Russian counterparts.

 

[Iron Man]

What the Z-10 lacks at this very moment is a powerful turboshaft. Without it, the helicopter risks being left in the dust by its Western and Russian counterparts.

By the same measure, the only serious deficit that needs to be fixed with the Z-10 is the turboshaft. From this all other solutions will easily flow.

 

[Jeff Head]

It is without a shred of doubt that the Apache outclasses the Z-10 (and most of its competitors) in virtually every manner: payload, electronics, armor, agility, and armament. This, of course, owes to its very powerful turboshaft engines. A decent powerplant paves the way for superior armor plating (as well as IR deflectors near its engine exhausts), more payload, higher thrust-to-weight ratio, and the ability to carry a MMW radar that allows over-the-horizon targeting (which also works in poor weather conditions).

What the Z-10 lacks at this very moment is a powerful turboshaft. Without it, the helicopter risks being left in the dust by its Western and Russian counterparts.

All you say is true.

I wanted to just show how in terms of form and stations, etc. They are very similar in appearance.

Adding that laser designating to the top of the mast is a nice touch of course on the Apache. Being able to self laser designate the targets is a critical function.

But, as you say, if the Z010 could just get a better turbo-shaft, most of the other issues would resolve themselves for what is already a very good looking and capable attack helo.

I know I would want to be on the receiving end of what it could dish out!