Yuan Class AIP & Kilo Submarine Thread

[Tam]

@lcloo @Tam the top portion looks like the Swedish A26. So a new variant?

It looks like one of those subs CSIC, which is now merged with CSSC to form CSG, offered as submarine models for export.

It can be a prototype. It can be a product for an export customer. It can also be PLAN's, as export submarines might be reflecting from a source domestic product.

Submarines like the Yuan class are double hulled. You can still preserve the original inner pressure hull, but you can vary the shape of the external or outer hull. I wonder how much of the technology is inherited from the Song to the Yuan class, as both are Type 039X despite the difference of the external hull. This might still be a Type 039X. You can also see how different the 093A looks like from the 093. But that all depends what's the final Type number the PLAN will give, assuming the sub is for the PLAN and not an export customer like Thailand or Pakistan.

 

[Tam]

PLAN AIP submarines does get their battaries replaced. Here's a video of that in action, starts at 1:35.

That's cool, and the system is already on a Song class which is an older and not AIP submarine. The video looks like its a Song class. It looks a lot like what's on the Dolphin class.




The ones below would be more inconvenient.





As for the Lithium Ion, I would prefer to wait because this technology might be overtaken by solid state batteries which is much faster to charge and has higher power density. Other batteries use a chemical gel but a solid state battery uses a solid or metal to act as an electrolyte between the anode and cathode. Solid state batteries are already starting to be used with some Chinese EVs in 2021 such as Nio which made this announcement in January. So why not just wait for solid state batteries instead?

 

[Orthan]

It looks like one of those subs CSIC, which is now merged with CSSC to form CSG, offered as submarine models for export.

The sail of the submarine on the photo is very different from any of these models.

 

[Anlsvrthng]

That's cool, and the system is already on a Song class which is an older and not AIP submarine. The video looks like its a Song class. It looks a lot like what's on the Dolphin class.




The ones below would be more inconvenient.


View attachment 71943View attachment 71944


As for the Lithium Ion, I would prefer to wait because this technology might be overtaken by solid state batteries which is much faster to charge and has higher power density. Other batteries use a chemical gel but a solid state battery uses a solid or metal to act as an electrolyte between the anode and cathode. Solid state batteries are already starting to be used with some Chinese EVs in 2021 such as Nio which made this announcement in January. So why not just wait for solid state batteries instead?

The hydrogen cylinder should be bigger than the oxygen one.

And what type of solid battery you talk about ? The Lion is solid, and by my best knowledge there is no other solid material between the hydrogen and lithium.

 

[Tirdent]

The hydrogen cylinder should be bigger than the oxygen one.

Hydrogen storage is not pure gaseous/liquid but metal hydride. There are also far more of these small cylinders than shown, they are essentially wrapped round the entire perimeter of the double-hulled section.

 

[Tam]

The hydrogen cylinder should be bigger than the oxygen one.

And what type of solid battery you talk about ? The Lion is solid, and by my best knowledge there is no other solid material between the hydrogen and lithium.

Lithium Ion has a gel between the cathode and anode. Its not solid state. EVs have begun switch from Li-ion to solid state.

 

[Tam]

The sail of the submarine on the photo is very different from any of these models.

Its similar to those export models in terms of the hull and the lower half of the sail but the top of the sail went "Swedish". Not unlike the new version of the 093 we have seen recently.

 

[Anlsvrthng]

Lithium Ion has a gel between the cathode and anode. Its not solid state. EVs have begun switch from Li-ion to solid state.

From a pure theoretical point of view, any electrolyte that solid will have extreme challenges to design / manufacture with an acceptable energy/amperage density.

At the end of the day the basic principle of the battery is to move ions between the anode and cathode, means liquid is the best, and the warmer liquid is better than cooler.

Reason of the usage of molten salt batteries in missiles and other short term/high power applications.

Not impossible, of course , but this kind of stuff will require lot of time to mature, and become economical. And safe .

 

[Tam]

From a pure theoretical point of view, any electrolyte that solid will have extreme challenges to design / manufacture with an acceptable energy/amperage density.

At the end of the day the basic principle of the battery is to move ions between the anode and cathode, means liquid is the best, and the warmer liquid is better than cooler.

Reason of the usage of molten salt batteries in missiles and other short term/high power applications.

Not impossible, of course , but this kind of stuff will require lot of time to mature, and become economical. And safe .

I think you better do a check again. Its already around the corner and going to be offered for EVs.

 

[voyager1]

I think you better do a check again. Its already around the corner. This year.

BYD already makes solid states batteries. But we still dont know if there are any issues that prevents it from deploying them in submarines.

Lithium though is very dangerous for submarines and it carries a lot of risk.

In my not expert view I cant see why solid sate batteries cant be used in a submarine. It would cut down a lot of costs from extra redundancies and safety features that Lithium-based submarines have to use to provide a fool-proof system