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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: North Korea Political Purge
I am worried And I think the PRC big wigs are worried. Many have viewed the man as the Closest link between Beijing and Pyongyang. If this is True then this means that any pull or push the Chinese had may have disappeared.
solarz
Brigadier
Re: North Korea Political Purge
I highly doubt that. China's influence over North Korea comes from the massive aid they send them, not from some possibly over-ambitious old guy.
I highly doubt that. China's influence over North Korea comes from the massive aid they send them, not from some possibly over-ambitious old guy.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Wishful Thinking, Aid and Power offer only some influence and Need I remind you that the North Koreans have bit the hand that feed them on any number of occasions. For the Kim's Aid is a bribe. In order to keep NK in line any power needs a key individual in the Influence zone, Someone who can if need be take over or leak details. If this man was China's Man in Pyongyang then young Kim is with out a collar. despite the fact that China is a major Asian Power. I remind you that Kim Il Sung used his position to manipulate both the Superior USSR and PRC in to backing him in the first Korean War. There is the Potential here for the Tail to wag the Dog.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
I don't know why people get so worried about events like these. Yeah it maybe trouble but then maybe not. It's clear with each Kim that has rose to power they've carried out the same policies as usual. To me that says each Kim is not necessarily giving all the commands and someone or others in the background are continuing the same policies. Now we're suppose to believe that Uncle Kim was the reformist? Why, because the West focuses on the figureheads up front and in power to hate? So the enemy of my enemy is my friend logic is in play here? Even before this news I remember reading an uncle (not sure if it was this one) behind the scenes had a lot of power for himself. There was a story I saw this morning on TV that said one of the Syria rebel leaders the US supported just flipped over to an Al Qaeda sponsored group where the US now has cut off aid to the rebels. If we go by the enemy of my enemy is my friends logic, shouldn't that be impossible that a Syrian rebel leader the US supported be sympathetic to Al Qaeda at all?
There's also a purging like Bo Xilai going in China too of another high political officer and of course because the US hates the current regime, he must be the good guy. Remember how the Western media was reporting how a military coup was taking place in China over Bo. So now all of the sudden the PLA who the US sees as the enemy is on the side of "good" going on in China? They're saying the same thing about what's going on in China as in North Korea and how it's a power grab by Xi Jinping and all the people the US hates.
Maybe Uncle Kim is really 'worse than a dog.'
There's also a purging like Bo Xilai going in China too of another high political officer and of course because the US hates the current regime, he must be the good guy. Remember how the Western media was reporting how a military coup was taking place in China over Bo. So now all of the sudden the PLA who the US sees as the enemy is on the side of "good" going on in China? They're saying the same thing about what's going on in China as in North Korea and how it's a power grab by Xi Jinping and all the people the US hates.
Maybe Uncle Kim is really 'worse than a dog.'
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kwaigonegin
Colonel
Re: North Korea Political Purge
To the semi sane person or leader yes you are correct.. but we're talking bout the Kims here. I mean the dude just had his uncle murdered! and I bet he was probably over his house for some fancy feast just last week!
To the semi sane person or leader yes you are correct.. but we're talking bout the Kims here. I mean the dude just had his uncle murdered! and I bet he was probably over his house for some fancy feast just last week!
airsuperiority
Captain
Re: North Korea Political Purge
C'mon let's be serious here. Do any of us seriously really think just because he's a despotic dictator, that will mean he can nuke or do whatever he wants and his staffs won't stop him? No matter how much of a messiah he is within his borders, he is only as powerful as the staffs who support them.
And all successful dictators(meaning those who can finish their reign) have this in common: they are sane, rational people, and they need the support of his senior staffs. Power only exists where people recognizes it, and the most important rule of this is that you make it attractive choice for people to recognize your power, while unappealing choice if one is to ignore your "legitimacy"(in the case of a dictator or power-seeker, they make sure disobedience is associated with fear, or the theme for the consequence). If they aren't, they couldn't see too many birthdays.
This also means something even more important: he can't go against this golden rule. If for these people, supporting him actually put themselves in danger, they will stop supporting him, or go against him in order to protect themselves. That said, he will not pull off something crazy that will send himself and all his staffs to death, since they will then be alarmed to do something about it or against him(because everyone looks after themselves. Heck if I'm one of his corrupted senior staffs and I know my life's in danger, I probably will disappear with my entire family one afternoon flying out of the country). THAT, is when you have your classic political instability where even the head of state is in serious jeopardy. This is when he acts in a way which he throws his game away and asks for his minions to turn against him. He loses his game by putting his values at risk("values" as in that they represent something critical to his instrument of power). I'm pretty sure all dictators know this golden rule the day they enter the political world.
To outsiders, dictators are just simply unpredictable to us, and to most people. However, unpredictable doesn't mean you're insane; just simply people can't guess their minds or figure out what they are about to do next. Dictators are especially specialized in micro-managing their social circles, and perhaps better at doing this than managing interstate relations. Being unpredictable is just him simply either steps ahead, or being extremely deceptive, manipulative, in order to stay above the game. So that said, we are getting our unknowns of him mixed with the stupid media reports and our lack of possessing the whole picture.
No matter how eccentric we envision Kim or his kind to be(including Hitler, Idi the Last King of Scotland LOL, Gaddafi, Hussein), we are the ones being stupid and taking a media image to our weird imaginations if we think they want to nuke the world next, or pull off some crazy sh!t "that no sane person will do", "get us all killed".
So him killing his uncle is probably just him doing housekeeping, and telling his folks what to and what not to. If his uncle is really something powerful, what we should look at is the steps and the events that had taken place up to this. That way, we can tell how far he had come into securing his power. My hypothesis is that if he executed his uncle without much foreplay(this probably is very unlikely to occur), and his uncle had never been known to the party as opposing to him, then Kim would have executed a poor move. On the other hand, if either his uncle had been known to be opposing him for many occasions, and there was a foreplay leading up to a trial and of the sort, then this lets everyone in his party to know what's going on and what to expect. Another question we should examine is the blood relations between him and this uncle. Is this uncle the father of his older brother? or his younger? Or just someone who's not important? And what's going to happen to the uncle's family? Either way, fear is for sure, but how he treats the family will send the ripple effects to the "community"(the Party).
Hmm writing this, I think I've got Stockholme Syndrome figured out haha...
C'mon let's be serious here. Do any of us seriously really think just because he's a despotic dictator, that will mean he can nuke or do whatever he wants and his staffs won't stop him? No matter how much of a messiah he is within his borders, he is only as powerful as the staffs who support them.
And all successful dictators(meaning those who can finish their reign) have this in common: they are sane, rational people, and they need the support of his senior staffs. Power only exists where people recognizes it, and the most important rule of this is that you make it attractive choice for people to recognize your power, while unappealing choice if one is to ignore your "legitimacy"(in the case of a dictator or power-seeker, they make sure disobedience is associated with fear, or the theme for the consequence). If they aren't, they couldn't see too many birthdays.
This also means something even more important: he can't go against this golden rule. If for these people, supporting him actually put themselves in danger, they will stop supporting him, or go against him in order to protect themselves. That said, he will not pull off something crazy that will send himself and all his staffs to death, since they will then be alarmed to do something about it or against him(because everyone looks after themselves. Heck if I'm one of his corrupted senior staffs and I know my life's in danger, I probably will disappear with my entire family one afternoon flying out of the country). THAT, is when you have your classic political instability where even the head of state is in serious jeopardy. This is when he acts in a way which he throws his game away and asks for his minions to turn against him. He loses his game by putting his values at risk("values" as in that they represent something critical to his instrument of power). I'm pretty sure all dictators know this golden rule the day they enter the political world.
To outsiders, dictators are just simply unpredictable to us, and to most people. However, unpredictable doesn't mean you're insane; just simply people can't guess their minds or figure out what they are about to do next. Dictators are especially specialized in micro-managing their social circles, and perhaps better at doing this than managing interstate relations. Being unpredictable is just him simply either steps ahead, or being extremely deceptive, manipulative, in order to stay above the game. So that said, we are getting our unknowns of him mixed with the stupid media reports and our lack of possessing the whole picture.
No matter how eccentric we envision Kim or his kind to be(including Hitler, Idi the Last King of Scotland LOL, Gaddafi, Hussein), we are the ones being stupid and taking a media image to our weird imaginations if we think they want to nuke the world next, or pull off some crazy sh!t "that no sane person will do", "get us all killed".
So him killing his uncle is probably just him doing housekeeping, and telling his folks what to and what not to. If his uncle is really something powerful, what we should look at is the steps and the events that had taken place up to this. That way, we can tell how far he had come into securing his power. My hypothesis is that if he executed his uncle without much foreplay(this probably is very unlikely to occur), and his uncle had never been known to the party as opposing to him, then Kim would have executed a poor move. On the other hand, if either his uncle had been known to be opposing him for many occasions, and there was a foreplay leading up to a trial and of the sort, then this lets everyone in his party to know what's going on and what to expect. Another question we should examine is the blood relations between him and this uncle. Is this uncle the father of his older brother? or his younger? Or just someone who's not important? And what's going to happen to the uncle's family? Either way, fear is for sure, but how he treats the family will send the ripple effects to the "community"(the Party).
Hmm writing this, I think I've got Stockholme Syndrome figured out haha...
Re: North Korea Political Purge
Actually, I would call the Kim's "terrorists", and all tyrannical murdering thugs have lost their "moral compass", I would say that this young man is a "paranoid schizophrenic", very much afraid of loosing his newfound power, and willing to kill anyone around him to protect his image and power. He is a very evil man, his world revolves around HIM, self centered and all of his immoral illegal acts can be explained as having been "attacks on him".... don't quit your day job yet Dr. Freud, but then I only have 21+ years in mental health, and yes I could be wrong, the more I know about people, the more I realize how enigmatic we all are?????
Actually, I would call the Kim's "terrorists", and all tyrannical murdering thugs have lost their "moral compass", I would say that this young man is a "paranoid schizophrenic", very much afraid of loosing his newfound power, and willing to kill anyone around him to protect his image and power. He is a very evil man, his world revolves around HIM, self centered and all of his immoral illegal acts can be explained as having been "attacks on him".... don't quit your day job yet Dr. Freud, but then I only have 21+ years in mental health, and yes I could be wrong, the more I know about people, the more I realize how enigmatic we all are?????
kwaigonegin
Colonel
Re: North Korea Political Purge
Have to respecfully disagree on some things. He is not the typical run of the mill dictator in which case your analysis is right on. He IS insane! that is the very definition of insanity. Maybe a calculated, deious form of insait but insanity all the same. Also NK unlike most other countries where a dictator rules, NK is not only entirely close to the outside world but he (or at least his family) is look upon by the average NK as deity.. almost a demi God. Pretty much everyone in NK is brainwashed unlike other countries with dictators where the local populace at least know what's going on in the outside world. This is inspite of countless atrocities and sending thousands if not millions to hard labor camps where majority will most certainly meet their doom.
Also not sure where you got that nuke thing from. I never mentioned that in my post. My original contention was about the strain with Chinese support and that he may not care as much as you may think he does with the assasination and all. If anything I think that the West thinks he is more dependant on China than he really does or even care. I think he is far from being China's lap dog like most in the West think he is. While China certainly has some influence on NK I think we put too much stock in it.
I do agree on the housecleaning thing. That is partly insanity and partly human nature. Even in many corporations when a new CEO comes in he usually would bring with him overtime his 'buddies' to management to form his power base. Just that in Kim's case he go the extra mile of craziness. He is also less concern about the outside world because this was not done in secret. I'm sure in the past his dad and other NK leaders have done many assasinations on either friends or even family members but this is the first time I think where it is made relatively public on such a high profile individual not to mention a close relative of his.
Have to respecfully disagree on some things. He is not the typical run of the mill dictator in which case your analysis is right on. He IS insane! that is the very definition of insanity. Maybe a calculated, deious form of insait but insanity all the same. Also NK unlike most other countries where a dictator rules, NK is not only entirely close to the outside world but he (or at least his family) is look upon by the average NK as deity.. almost a demi God. Pretty much everyone in NK is brainwashed unlike other countries with dictators where the local populace at least know what's going on in the outside world. This is inspite of countless atrocities and sending thousands if not millions to hard labor camps where majority will most certainly meet their doom.
Also not sure where you got that nuke thing from. I never mentioned that in my post. My original contention was about the strain with Chinese support and that he may not care as much as you may think he does with the assasination and all. If anything I think that the West thinks he is more dependant on China than he really does or even care. I think he is far from being China's lap dog like most in the West think he is. While China certainly has some influence on NK I think we put too much stock in it.
I do agree on the housecleaning thing. That is partly insanity and partly human nature. Even in many corporations when a new CEO comes in he usually would bring with him overtime his 'buddies' to management to form his power base. Just that in Kim's case he go the extra mile of craziness. He is also less concern about the outside world because this was not done in secret. I'm sure in the past his dad and other NK leaders have done many assasinations on either friends or even family members but this is the first time I think where it is made relatively public on such a high profile individual not to mention a close relative of his.
airsuperiority
Captain
Re: North Korea Political Purge
Oh don't worry I wasn't directing at you personally or anything. I'm just saying that when the word dictator comes around, stereotype happens quick, and there's rarely anything to counterbalance it(because no one wanna defend something morally wrong). The nuke was just about him and his repeated threats and behavior. I believe everything NK does is very calculating, especially Kim, so I would not underestimate him in any form yet by calling him insane or what. Rather, it's more possible for him to be psychopath or sociopath, which can be worse. However once again this guy is fresh on the stage, so there's only a handful we know about this guy. I think the best course of action is continue to observe and see what happens next. When discuss about this stuff, there's endless possiblities.
Oh don't worry I wasn't directing at you personally or anything. I'm just saying that when the word dictator comes around, stereotype happens quick, and there's rarely anything to counterbalance it(because no one wanna defend something morally wrong). The nuke was just about him and his repeated threats and behavior. I believe everything NK does is very calculating, especially Kim, so I would not underestimate him in any form yet by calling him insane or what. Rather, it's more possible for him to be psychopath or sociopath, which can be worse. However once again this guy is fresh on the stage, so there's only a handful we know about this guy. I think the best course of action is continue to observe and see what happens next. When discuss about this stuff, there's endless possiblities.
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