which language is the best one in the word?

KYli

Brigadier
sumdud said:
What the? Did you go to Mandarin school on the weekend or something? Hong Kong didn't standardize Mandarin into fully public/government schools until I think 1997. And still then, it was not present in other schools (public chartered) like those Anglican or Buddhist schools.

Not trying to offend anyone, but does it get annoying to you when people start speaking your language with sounds available only in their language?
And does ebonics count as a language?
No, it is just one class for every week. My school just want the students to learn some basic Mandarin, but it really don't have much an effect.

I don't get annoying, but it might have to do with my own experience. Since I am from Fujian and move around a lot, I speak Fujianese, cantonese, mandarin and english. I knew the difficult to learn a new language, especially when you are older. It took me only three month to learn to speak Cantonese, but I still am not fluient in English eventhrough I lived in US for fiftenn years. So I am very patient with people who speak my language with funny accent, but I do understand why people will get annoying.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Finn McCool said:
Languages these days reflect the era of colonialism. For example Latin America doesn't really have native languages anymore except for in some isolated areas. In Northern Africa French is the "lingua franca"

Just a quick comment - in Paraguay, the official languages are Spanish and Guarani (Bilingual state). Approx. 94% of the population of Paraguay can speak Guarani.

There are several South American countries with multiple official languages. For an example in Bolivia & Peru it's Spanish, Quechua, and Aymara. The capital city of Bolivia, La Paz, is smack in the heartland of Aymara-speakers.
 

The_Zergling

Junior Member
Somewhat on topic, I suppose. I don't know if it's old, but to me it's new stuff. I heard the UN was abolishing the use of Traditional Chinese in their documents?

Am I the only guy going WTF? I mean, you can say that less strokes makes writing the language easier. It's the DIGITAL AGE for crying out loud! Who the hell writes long text by hand now? People type stuff up with computers, it doesn't matter how many strokes there are, the computer does the work! You simply have to recognize the characters, and whether you are literate or not has no relation to whether the words are simplified or not.
 

KYli

Brigadier
The UN has not been using Traditional Chinese ever since 1970s, so I don't know why they made an official annoncement recently. It is nothing to upset about, and you have to understand Simplifield is use by more people. Eventhrough I am also using Traditonal Chinese, and like the traditonal chinese more. I have no problem with these.
 

ahho

Junior Member
sumdud said:
Oh, no.
What you've seen is the tip of the iceberg.
Most kids born in China and related regions and moving to the West at around 3 are pretty much the same as most ABCs(America born Chinese, in US' case.) They share the same kind of knowledge, fashion, culture, etc.
I can name two members in here that are true to your scenario, but the other kids, born in China and in the West by 3, don't give a care of China at all. So you don't really get to see a good distribution for such people.

Kids who had same schooling in China forst is a totally different case, though.
(I belong to neither case, I am ABC, born in Vermont, but I did go to school in Hong Kong for some years.)

So does Spanish and German. In fact, I think English is one of the few that has a neutral gender.
Agreed. I've always seen myself as an ETHNIC American when I started living in Hong Kong. (I was a racist then....... Thinking China is evil.....) And now I am usually pro-China. (Well, Bush did help with that.) :rofl:

Yeap, I agree!
Try Ms. Kaiser(married a German.) I can guarentee to you after seeing Kaiser, Chan will seem a good teacher.
Well, if you learn Chinese as a 1st language, I'd say it's easy. Every kid can end up speaking Chinese with little grammar error.(Contrary to English, with its, to me, weird grammar, I see a lot of kids end up speaking ebonics when they are out of school or just don't speak proper English. No offence.)
But as a 2nd language when you are from the West(Well, Chinese is to the East as English is to the West: The East is filled with Chinese), it can be very difficult due to huge differences in function and grammar. And if you are learning traditional, the strokes can be a hazzle. The different dialects and writing can be a problem too, though not as big as India's I'll say.
I think pinyin is better though. For the same point. It sounds more like Chinese, though I've never actually touch juyin, only seen some of it, like tsa or chi. I mean, wouldn't such "cheat" help? If you use english in Juyin, it's not going to help much.
I don't think those help THAT much. People can speak it usually fluently though sometimes with a little local accent due to English exposure 1st. But writing? Doubt it. It's on weekends anyway.
Don't know about China, but it's here in San Francisco all the time, even in the newspaper.
What the? Did you go to Mandarin school on the weekend or something? Hong Kong didn't standardize Mandarin into fully public/government schools until I think 1997. And still then, it was not present in other schools (public chartered) like those Anglican or Buddhist schools.

Not trying to offend anyone, but does it get annoying to you when people start speaking your language with sounds available only in their language?
And does ebonics count as a language?

mandarin course was already mandatory for a lot of public school. i came to canada at 1993 so my sister learn it in highschool before that time
 

darth sidious

Banned Idiot
The_Zergling said:
Somewhat on topic, I suppose. I don't know if it's old, but to me it's new stuff. I heard the UN was abolishing the use of Traditional Chinese in their documents?

Am I the only guy going WTF? I mean, you can say that less strokes makes writing the language easier. It's the DIGITAL AGE for crying out loud! Who the hell writes long text by hand now? People type stuff up with computers, it doesn't matter how many strokes there are, the computer does the work! You simply have to recognize the characters, and whether you are literate or not has no relation to whether the words are simplified or not.

teh mordern simplifyed chinese is the way of the future !!!!!!!!!!
:china:
in the case of UN the decision is more political as the emphise of china over taiwan :china:
 

The_Zergling

Junior Member
darth sidious said:
teh mordern simplifyed chinese is the way of the future !!!!!!!!!!
:china:
in the case of UN the decision is more political as the emphise of china over taiwan :china:

True. I know that the UN in fact hadn't been using Traditional Chinese for quite a while. What actually disturbs me the most is this global shift towards Simplified. (No offense intended towards our Chinese forum members)

For one thing, it makes censoring things easier for the CCP. Things written in Traditional must be translated, the differences in the writing aren't as superficial as a alternate font style. It is quite plausible that the CCP can add political index and references to a translated Traditional Chinese book in the progress. Those that are unable to read the original are forced to rely on those indexes and references. Obviously this is true of any language but I would believe that it's more plausible given the touchy relations between China(simplified) and Taiwan(traditional)

Also, maybe it's just a habit of mine, but extra strokes tend to be BETTER in this digital era. I'm not sure how it works in Pinyin, but when I'm using Juyin sometimes there will be words with the same sound but have different characters. With Traditional it's much easier to pick out the words you need, making typing faster and less error prone. (This is just my opinion)

From my observations (and dabbling) in Simplified, many words look nearly identical, oftentimes only differing by a stroke or a dot. For example, 买实头 and the traditional writing, 買實頭. Which ones are easier to tell apart? I think it's quite obvious.
 

sumdud

Senior Member
VIP Professional
ahho said:
mandarin course was already mandatory for a lot of public school. i came to canada at 1993 so my sister learn it in highschool before that time
No, I meant Mandarin was not standardized in Hong Kong until 1998, and that's only for the fully-public schools. I am only talking about Hong Kong.
 

Wingman

Junior Member
PiSigma said:
japanese is too hard, i mean 3 different written languages.. that is just a pain to learn. i feel sorry for japanese students.
It's not 3 different written languages. It has one set of "alphabets" with two cases (kinda like upper/lower case in English), one for expressing foreign words and one for expressing normal words, they're all pronounced the same way. They also substitute Chinese characters but still pronouncing them the same way.
 

ahho

Junior Member
sumdud said:
No, I meant Mandarin was not standardized in Hong Kong until 1998, and that's only for the fully-public schools. I am only talking about Hong Kong.

well actually i should write better. I should said that i was from hong kong, eventhough it wasn't standardized, almost all high school in hong kong have to learn mandarin and that was basically demanded by most parents.
 
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