What the Heck?! Thread (Closed)

[B.I.B.]

I flew with Emirates once. Their flight attendants are polite and nice, aircraft is new and fresh like 4 star hotel. The only and a big problem is that they delayed my flight for a day so that I was put in a 4 star hotel in London. Although I was taken care of very well by the airline, I still preferred being on time. In any way, they are way better than UA bullying passengers, who is paying whom really.

Yup.
My partner worked as a senior relieving registrar in a Melbourne hospital for 3 days a week.She was based in Auckland and flew back and forth every week for nearly a year and accumulating a substantal amount of airpoints with Emirates.I too have an Emirates VIP card and airpoints which gets me constant upgrades to business class.I don't mind getting to the airport a little earlier and make use of the free nibbles and drinks in their waiting lounge.

 

[solarz]

Hmmm Dao might not get as much as he might like. New video records him telling the police that he would rather go to jail then get off the plane.He then is heard to tell the police that he was okay with being dragged off the plane before it happened.Maybe he saw an opportunity to score big time even if it mean't getting roughed up a little.

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ut video showing what led to the shocking act adds a surprising twist to the scandalous story.

he clip, recorded by a woman sitting behind Dao, shows him talking on the phone while being asked to leave the aircraft by police.

He refuses, saying: "I won't go. I'm a physician, have to work tomorrow at 8 o'clock."

Dao is heard to say he will "make a lawsuit against United Airlines" and adamantly refuses to give up his seat.

A police officer says to Dao: "I have to drag you. You know how this is going to end up happening, right?"



Continued below.

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A clearly angry Dao says the officer can drag him from the flight, and that he'd rather go to jail.

"You can drag me then, I don't go. I'm staying. You'll have to drag me," he said.

While the officer explains to Dao that not co-operating will make things "a lot harder for you", Dao interjects saying "I'd rather go to jail".

Confused, the cop questions Dao, seeking to clarify what he has said.

"You'd rather go to jail than just get off the plane?" he asks.

"Yeah," Dao is heard to reply.

Before the clip cuts out Dao is heard complaining that he has travelled "almost 24 hours" coming from LA, and protests further.

Dao is then dragged from his seat by police officers, sustaining injuries to his face.

The Elizabethtown man has hired a legal team and a lawsuit against United Airlines is expected.

After drawing criticism by claiming the passenger was "disruptive and belligerent", United chief executive Oscar Munoz later issued Dao a grovelling apology.

The embattled CEO has appeared on US TV overnight in full damage control.

"You saw us at a bad moment and it can never and will never happen again on a United Airlines flight and that's my promise," Munoz told Good Morning America.

Asked what he thought when he first saw the footage, he said: "The word shame comes to mind".

"That is not who are family at United is."

Munoz said the company would no longer use law enforcement officers to remove passengers from overbooked flights.

I see nothing strange in that, just a man who decided to put his foot down and stand against an obvious injustice.

Have we become so used to airlines herding us like cattle, that not only do we expect to be screwed over, we are also expected to enjoy it??

 

[Air Force Brat]

LOLOL Day 3, CEO Oscar Munoz goes on live TV to read an apology letter in Mandarin Hahahaha

Heh! Heh!, yeah its funny, with Mr. Dao's past??? I'd say the flight crew should have launched him down the back ramp themselves... the cop pleaded with him to get off the plane.....once you have been commanded to disembark, you ain't gonna fly on that plane, a passenger who is drunk or under the influence, or disruptive in any way, the law states you as the Pilot in command will remove that passenger from the aircraft.... period.

When YOU or anyone else is on a commercial aircraft, the CAPTAIN is the LAW, if you disrupt a flight crew, you are committing a crime. After 911, ANY, and I do mean ANY stoopidity or disregard for instructions, will get anybody tossed OFF the aircraft.

 

[plawolf]

In a way, it doesn't matter what the Doctor did or didn't do.

Short of there being footage of him punching the officer or something equivalent to make the excessive use of force by the police acceptable, anything else will be seen as an attempt at victim blaming and make the situation worse for UA.

Their best strategy now is to throw a giant pile of money at the doctor and settle out of court ASAP.

This is a no win situation for UA in a legal battle. So best not to even fight it.

Give him $10m, with conditions that he keeps the settlement value confidential, and publicly accepts UA's apology. And this will blow over.

Otherwise their brand will continue to be damaged and share price fall.

 

[Air Force Brat]

In a way, it doesn't matter what the Doctor did or didn't do.

Short of there being footage of him punching the officer or something equivalent to make the excessive use of force by the police acceptable, anything else will be seen as an attempt at victim blaming and make the situation worse for UA.

Their best strategy now is to throw a giant pile of money at the doctor and settle out of court ASAP.

This is a no win situation for UA in a legal battle. So best not to even fight it.

Give him $10m, with conditions that he keeps the settlement value confidential, and publicly accepts UA's apology. And this will blow over.

Otherwise their brand will continue to be damaged and share price fall.

It doesn't matter what Mr. Dao's race is, no one gets mistreated on a commercial airline flight, in the US because of their race, religion, or nationality. Yes United should have chartered an aircraft for their flight crew,,, they made a bad call, but once Mr. Dao had broken the law, it was entirely appropriate to call law enforcement and have him removed from the aircraft.

I'm disgusted with Mr. Munoz for saying they will no longer call law enforcement to remove passengers, that's being a total priss, man up, tell the truth, and don't be afraid to deal with unruly passengers in a legal, ethical manner. Dr. Dao should probably have his M.D. pulled again, he used very questionable judgement!

The police officer should have probably tazzed Mr. Dao at some point, that would have minimized his injuries and the danger to the other innocent passengers!

I have a commercial drivers license, I worked with DD adults transporting them from their residence, to an "off campus" day program with vocational and academic services,,,,, yes, I have removed more than my share of unruly violent folks from lots of sensitive settings, classrooms, offices, kitchens, restrooms, and lots and lots of vehicles.

No one was ever abused or disrespected, but they were physically and forcibly removed in order to maintain safety, and yes law enforcement was called on more than one occasion, and yes, I have been hit, punched, pushed, spit on, and cussed unmercifully! I still did my job!

Even non-commercial civil aircraft follow the same rules, it is illegal to carry a passenger whom has displayed the behavior Mr. Dao clearly exhibited.

So while it was unfair to Mr. Dao to ask him to disembark, and he would have been entirely with-in his rights to engage legal council,,,, once he crossed the border, he was no longer a passenger, he was a threat to that flight crew, those passengers, that aircraft, and innocents on the ground, he was coming off that aircraft, as demanded by the law!

 

[manqiangrexue]

Heh! Heh!, yeah its funny, with Mr. Dao's past??? I'd say the flight crew should have launched him down the back ramp themselves... the cop pleaded with him to get off the plane.....once you have been commanded to disembark, you ain't gonna fly on that plane, a passenger who is drunk or under the influence, or disruptive in any way, the law states you as the Pilot in command will remove that passenger from the aircraft.... period.

When YOU or anyone else is on a commercial aircraft, the CAPTAIN is the LAW, if you disrupt a flight crew, you are committing a crime. After 911, ANY, and I do mean ANY stoopidity or disregard for instructions, will get anybody tossed OFF the aircraft.

What's Dr. Dao's past have to do with anything? Was he selling illegal drugs on the plane, which got him booted off? Cus then, I'd be with the airline. But no. He was a regular customer. Bought his ticket. Reserved his seat. Boarded and sat there. They gave him no contract of carriage, apparently, which will be UA's legal fault. According to all reason, he was completely in the right and no one had any acceptable or legal reason to force him to leave.

I understand many people in the US have gotten used to the line that you don't argue with the police; you always follow commands. Police action is unquestionable, and cannot be challenged by reason. (If the police have committed some horrendous wrong against you, you are free to take years out of your life and hundreds of thousands of dollars in your own money to hire a lawyer and hopefully get an answer, but no one should be subjected to this simply because the police were free to do whatever they wish, make whatever mistakes they want at the time due to them being given unlimited power as the law itself.) That is the mark of martial law, a police state, totalitarianism which is the opposite of a free democracy.

In China, the police would have asked why he needs to be removed. When they say it's because a paying customer refuses to relinquish what he paid for, they would tell the airline to shove it and don't ever call them back for stupid reasons like that again. Reason is the law; not any individual's words.

Another point, as a customer, you have the right to be treated with dignity. It seems that after 9/11, the US took it upon themselves to further mistreat passengers. It is popular culture now that once someone enters the airport, his/her rights are surrendered. Make one wrong move and prepare to suffer any consequences deemed fit by anyone working at the airport. You don't question anything; you obey your orders. It feels more like being in a prison than going for a service you paid for.

Mr. Munoz seems to disagree with you and he has seen that the customer is to be respected, not to be subjected to tyrannical rule. He only saw this after massive backlash threatened to tank his company, but he understands now what you don't. I think his promise that security would never be summoned to violently remove paying customers due to SOLELY to the flight being overbooked is a big step towards UA regaining some customers. Never did he say that security would never be summoned for any reason. I'm sure if someone became violent or otherwise disruptive without being heavily provoked by crew mismanagement, then everyone would agree that that is the proper use for security.

Now if America wishes to continue its culture of giving the police unquestionable power and turning people into prisoners at the airport, compounding the negative affects that foreign agents have inflicted on 9/11 by further demoralizing and disrespecting it's own citizens/residents, that's fine with me. Do whatever (further) damage unto yourself as you wish; if American citizens were forced to walk around with microchips and electrocution collars, it's up to you. I've always considered myself a guest here and see no reason to stay long. But for these reasons, I've always felt that China is freer than the US.

 

[Air Force Brat]

What's Dr. Dao's past have to do with anything? Was he selling illegal drugs on the plane, which got him booted off? Cus then, I'd be with the airline. But no. He was a regular customer. Bought his ticket. Reserved his seat. Boarded and sat there. They gave him no contract of carriage, apparently, which will be UA's legal fault. According to all reason, he was completely in the right and no one had any acceptable or legal reason to force him to leave.

I understand many people in the US have gotten used to the line that you don't argue with the police; you always follow commands. Police action is unquestionable, and cannot be challenged by reason. (If the police have committed some horrendous wrong against you, you are free to take years out of your life and hundreds of thousands of dollars in your own money to hire a lawyer and hopefully get an answer, but no one should be subjected to this simply because the police were free to do whatever they wish, make whatever mistakes they want at the time due to them being given unlimited power as the law itself.) That is the mark of martial law, a police state, totalitarianism which is the opposite of a free democracy.

In China, the police would have asked why he needs to be removed. When they say it's because a paying customer refuses to relinquish what he paid for, they would tell the airline to shove it and don't ever call them back for stupid reasons like that again. Reason is the law; not any individual's words.

Another point, as a customer, you have the right to be treated with dignity. It seems that after 9/11, the US took it upon themselves to further mistreat passengers. It is popular culture now that once someone enters the airport, his/her rights are surrendered. Make one wrong move and prepare to suffer any consequences deemed fit by anyone working at the airport. You don't question anything; you obey your orders. It feels more like being in a prison than going for a service you paid for.

Mr. Munoz seems to disagree with you and he has seen that the customer is to be respected, not to be subjected to tyrannical rule. He only saw this after massive backlash threatened to tank his company, but he understands now what you don't. I think his promise that security would never be summoned to violently remove paying customers due to SOLELY to the flight being overbooked is a big step towards UA regaining some customers. Never did he say that security would never be summoned for any reason. I'm sure if someone became violent or otherwise disruptive without being heavily provoked by crew mismanagement, then everyone would agree that that is the proper use for security.

Now if America wishes to continue its culture of giving the police unquestionable power and turning people into prisoners at the airport, compounding the negative affects that foreign agents have inflicted on 9/11 by further demoralizing and disrespecting it's own citizens/residents, that's fine with me. Do whatever (further) damage unto yourself as you wish; if American citizens were forced to walk around with microchips and electrocution collars, it's up to you. I've always considered myself a guest here and see no reason to stay long. But for these reasons, I've always felt that China is freer than the US.

I informed you of aspects of aviation law, you have demonstrated by your absurd statements and accusations that you have no relevant knowledge of said laws??

United Airlines owns that aircraft, they and they alone determine when and if that aircraft will operate, whom will operate it as flight crew, and rules of conduct for those who wish to purchase a ticket and become a paying passenger...they too are bound by aviation law!

I would urge you to do your research?? then you might fashion a cogent complaint that Dr. Dao might use in his suit against United Airlines.....Dr Dao is a convicted Felon, and has lost his medical license to practice in the State of Kentucky by dis-obeying the laws related to his license and the practice of medicine and the dispensing of pharmaceuticals.

He has been issued a conditional license to practice medicine one day per week under very strict guidelines, and likely under the supervision of another physician or group of physicians....as I noted, until Dr. Dao snuck back on that airplane, and impeded the flight crew in the performance of their duties, he had legal recourse. Now he will likely go to jail, and should!

that's all I'm going to say about that for the moment, no need to set up straw men, make false accusations, and put down the United States and Glorify China! No doubt you are a guest and welcome as long as you follow the law, the same situation that Dr. Dao was in when he purchased a ticket to become a passenger on United Airlines private aircraft?

 

[manqiangrexue]

I informed you of aspects of aviation law, you have demonstrated by your absurd statements and accusations that you have no relevant knowledge of said laws??

United Airlines owns that aircraft, they and they alone determine when and if that aircraft will operate, whom will operate it as flight crew, and rules of conduct for those who wish to purchase a ticket and become a paying passenger...they too are bound by aviation law!

I would urge you to do your research?? then you might fashion a cogent complaint that Dr. Dao might use in his suit against United Airlines.....Dr Dao is a convicted Felon, and has lost his medical license to practice in the State of Kentucky by dis-obeying the laws related to his license and the practice of medicine and the dispensing of pharmaceuticals.

He has been issued a conditional license to practice medicine one day per week under very strict guidelines, and likely under the supervision of another physician or group of physicians....as I noted, until Dr. Dao snuck back on that airplane, and impeded the flight crew in the performance of their duties, he had legal recourse. Now he will likely go to jail, and should!

that's all I'm going to say about that for the moment, no need to set up straw men, make false accusations, and put down the United States and Glorify China! No doubt you are a guest and welcome as long as you follow the law, the same situation that Dr. Dao was in when he purchased a ticket to become a passenger on United Airlines private aircraft?

Oh, I did my research, Brat. Take a look:

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And even if it were not true; even if UA was legally protected, their actions were still immoral and unreasonable as evident by the backlash and stock decline they experienced afterwards as well as the moral support the majority of the people have given Dr. Dao. The people use their money to judge who's right; that's about the only democracy left in the US.

What further devalues your view that Dr. Dao will be arrested for being in the wrong is that the UA CEO has apologized, promised it will never happen again, asked Dr. Dao to accept his outreach for settlement, ALL the passengers on the flight were refunded, and the security agent involved was suspended. These are things that happened in the real world, not in the biases of your mind, which heavily and unreasonably favors the side of the profession you chose.

I have no idea why you would (continue to) bring up Dr. Dao's past convictions as they have no impact on his current case. The only straw man argument here is yours, that because Dr. Dao had previously made mistakes, that that would diminish or in any way affect the rights he had on that flight.

 

[solarz]

I informed you of aspects of aviation law, you have demonstrated by your absurd statements and accusations that you have no relevant knowledge of said laws??

United Airlines owns that aircraft, they and they alone determine when and if that aircraft will operate, whom will operate it as flight crew, and rules of conduct for those who wish to purchase a ticket and become a paying passenger...they too are bound by aviation law!

I would urge you to do your research?? then you might fashion a cogent complaint that Dr. Dao might use in his suit against United Airlines.....Dr Dao is a convicted Felon, and has lost his medical license to practice in the State of Kentucky by dis-obeying the laws related to his license and the practice of medicine and the dispensing of pharmaceuticals.

He has been issued a conditional license to practice medicine one day per week under very strict guidelines, and likely under the supervision of another physician or group of physicians....as I noted, until Dr. Dao snuck back on that airplane, and impeded the flight crew in the performance of their duties, he had legal recourse. Now he will likely go to jail, and should!

that's all I'm going to say about that for the moment, no need to set up straw men, make false accusations, and put down the United States and Glorify China! No doubt you are a guest and welcome as long as you follow the law, the same situation that Dr. Dao was in when he purchased a ticket to become a passenger on United Airlines private aircraft?

Wow, do you work for United or something?

FYI, it doesn't matter if David Dao used to club baby seals to death, what the airline and the police did was wrong, period!

 

[vesicles]

My 2-cent on the matter.

Firstly, Dao's past doesn't matter. The security personnel didn't know his past at the time and still beat him. Even if they knew, they shouldn't treat him like that. Not even prisoners should be treated as such.

Also, the medical board has given back his license. That suggests that he is a law-abiding citizen and has been a law-abiding citizen for quite some time. Medical boards in the US are typically extremely strict. Any transgression would cause them to take away your license. I've had a colleague who was involved in a bar fight and had his license taken away by the Texas medical board. He had never been involved in anything illegal before or after the incident. Almost 6 years after his license was taken away, he wanted to see if he could get it back. He is well liked by all his colleagues. So the Chief of surgery and Dean of our med school went to Austin with him to plead his case. It still took them 3 trips to get the medical board to agree to consider his case. He waited another year and half to finally get his license back. You can see how tough these medical boards are. So the fact that Dao got his license back suggests that he has been extremely well behaved for quite some time, enough good behavior to convince the tough-as-nail medical board to grant him license.

Secondly, I don't have any problem with AF Brat's point that Dao needed to be removed. No matter how unreasonable it may be, the FAA law does grant airlines authority to remove passengers as they please. I don't like the law and would like it to be changed as soon as possible. Even the POTUS himself said that removing seated passengers by force from a plane is absurd. However, as it is now, the law still stands. Thus, the UA flight did nothing legally wrong when they decided to remove Dao from the plane.

HOWEVER, the way they removed Dao was extremely troubling. The extreme brutality is what is troubling most people, including me.

As such, I think the Chicago Airport security should bear most of the blame as it was their agents who did all the beating and dragging. UA unfortunately took the shot.

UA should be blamed for the way they handled the situation before the law enforcement was called. It should have never come to the point that they needed to called the police. Note that Dao was not an unruly drunk or someone with mental illness, where the only way to handle the situation was by force. According to many passengers on the plane, Dao was a reasonable and calm person. He was simply unwilling to take the offer. Flight attendants had plenty other ways to deal with the situation. Yet, they decided to use the most convenient method to them, which happens to be the most brutal way. They could up the incentive. they stopped the incentive at $800, while their upper limit is $1350. Other passengers might be willing to take the offer if it was sweetened a little more.

If nothing else, the UA employees who needed to get on the flight to get to Louisville could get a car and drive. It's about 300 miles and take about 4 and half hours, but still better than losing billions of $$$. This just shows how cold and unsympathetic the UA flight attendants were, which implies a corporate culture that simply does not care about customers. This is what infuriates most people.

Yes, Dao was acting kind of weird after being beaten and dragged off the plane. I don't know how anyone would behave when beaten to a pulp... Especially Dao is 69 years old. He might have simply lost control when experiencing such traumatic event.