What the Heck?! Thread (Closed)

[Equation]

You seem to think I've never been to China, when in reality I've visited China many times in the last fiften years, and I've seen both good and bad. On balance, I'm quite impressed with that CCP leaders have done in such a short period of time. Let's address your points 1-3;

1) I agree China already has individual liberty on most things. Many of my office colleagues in the PRC openly express their displeasure of local, provincial, and national politicians and policies. I've said that several times on this message board. The exceptions that prove the rule are my colleagues might tell me in private they don't like the government dictating what churches are "official," but they wouldn't say that in public. Another example is the taboo subject on this forum.

2) I've quoted articles where CCP monitors the Internet to detect things that upset Chinese citizens. The government then go out and address the big or hot problems. I use that example as evidence the PRC is responsive to important concerns of the Chinese public. The fact CCP's priority is stay in power at all costs doesn't diminish the good things they do for people.

3) I pointed out CCP stoked nationalism it for its own purposes, and that's not a falsifiable statement. It's odd it turned out to be controversial, especially when it's relatively neutral.

ALL government and even private corporation and organization that holds an interests in certain beliefs does this at some point and still continue to do so. You don't think religious organization and their affiliates tried these stunts before?

 

[Equation]

I was just here yesterday evening!

Witness: Employee kills manager, then self inside southwest Houston store

• 

HOUSTON -

Two people are dead after a double shooting at a grocery store in southwest Houston.

It happened at the Hong Kong Marjket in the 11200 block of Bellaire Blvd. and Boone Road around 12 p.m. Monday.

Witnesses say an employee shot and killed a manager in the middle of the crowded store, then turned the gun on himself.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[taxiya]

It's really simple; put three random Americans in a room and you'll get five different opinions on any single topic.

I believe you are right, that is actually true everywhere I believe.
However the line of mine was in reference to no_name's reply "Foreigners may expect Americans hating US". I was wondering American's oversea experience when meeting local people.

 

[taxiya]

You seem to think I've never been to China, when in reality I've visited China many times in the last fiften years, and I've seen both good and bad. On balance, I'm quite impressed with that CCP leaders have done in such a short period of time. Let's address your points 1-3;

1) I agree China already has individual liberty on most things. Many of my office colleagues in the PRC openly express their displeasure of local, provincial, and national politicians and policies. I've said that several times on this message board. The exceptions that prove the rule are my colleagues might tell me in private they don't like the government dictating what churches are "official," but they wouldn't say that in public. Another example is the taboo subject on this forum.

2) I've quoted articles where CCP monitors the Internet to detect things that upset Chinese citizens. The government then go out and address the big or hot problems. I use that example as evidence the PRC is responsive to important concerns of the Chinese public. The fact CCP's priority is stay in power at all costs doesn't diminish the good things they do for people.

3) I pointed out CCP stoked nationalism it for its own purposes, and that's not a falsifiable statement. It's odd it turned out to be controversial, especially when it's relatively neutral.

First, I appreciate your reply as that shows that you are a serious and reasonable thinker except we don't agree with certain matters. No let me get to your points.
1) as you mentioned the complaint is about church. There are many Christians in China, I myself had a workmate being Catholic. However regardless which church they are in, they are not majority among the 1.3 billion. Not saying their words don't count, but simply not majority, far from it. We people very often tend to only get in contact to people of similar mind and background, that actually blind us. This is something I always remind myself, and I hope that you are aware of it. Even we don't make friend with people of different mind,, at least we should constantly ask ourselves, "am I seeing the whole truth, not a partial truth?"
3) what I was saying and will say again is that, nationalism to many Chinese is not something needed to be stoked by the government, neither CCP, nor past republican, nor old emperor. This nationalism is about self-determination and self-defense, after all, since the modern nationalism was introduced in China, China was mostly defensive. Of course one may argue about "defensive or offensive" in specific matters that we all know of recently that being the difference between you and me, but the general perception that was built since 1850 among Chinese people and imprinted deeply inside the Chinese conscious is that China's nationalism is self-defense, therefor, no need for any government to stoke.

 

[taxiya]

Accusing China of fanning anti-Japan sentiment is just a form of psychological projection. The lame stream media spews out anti-China garbage everyday, and politicians from certain western nations use China as the bogeyman to divert populace from domestic problems. The accusers act certain way, then automatically assume everyone else behaves the same way.

The last sentence reminds me of Confucius' word "measure somebody's belly with somebody else's own heart". not a good translation at all, but we got the point.

 

[Blackstone]

I believe you are right, that is actually true everywhere I believe.
However the line of mine was in reference to no_name's reply "Foreigners may expect Americans hating US". I was wondering American's oversea experience when meeting local people.

Americans are just like people everywhere, similar virtues and vices, except it has more money and power than any other country. You'll find all kinds if you travel the US, and you could note the interesting regional differences. Most Chinese would probably recognize US exceptionalism in that it's similar to China's exceptionalism. The biggest difference is the China doesn't care how other nations govern themselves, while Americans feel it's their God given right to tell others how to run their countries.

 

[Blackstone]

First, I appreciate your reply as that shows that you are a serious and reasonable thinker except we don't agree with certain matters. No let me get to your points.
1) as you mentioned the complaint is about church. There are many Christians in China, I myself had a workmate being Catholic. However regardless which church they are in, they are not majority among the 1.3 billion. Not saying their words don't count, but simply not majority, far from it. We people very often tend to only get in contact to people of similar mind and background, that actually blind us. This is something I always remind myself, and I hope that you are aware of it. Even we don't make friend with people of different mind,, at least we should constantly ask ourselves, "am I seeing the whole truth, not a partial truth?"

A reasonable response, and your phrase "am I seeing the whole truth, not a partial truth" is not falsifiable. What we could probable agree with is no nation or government is mostly good or mostly bad, and honest brokers call them as they see them, good and bad.

3) what I was saying and will say again is that, nationalism to many Chinese is not something needed to be stoked by the government, neither CCP, nor past republican, nor old emperor. This nationalism is about self-determination and self-defense, after all, since the modern nationalism was introduced in China, China was mostly defensive. Of course one may argue about "defensive or offensive" in specific matters that we all know of recently that being the difference between you and me, but the general perception that was built since 1850 among Chinese people and imprinted deeply inside the Chinese conscious is that China's nationalism is self-defense, therefor, no need for any government to stoke.

What you said doesn't negate the notion CCP stokes nationalism for its own purposes. I'm not sure why you and others have problems with that statement, since it's easy to Google examples from all governments to that effect. President Obama has done it, as have other Presidents and Prime Ministers all over the world. I hope none here is so irrational as to claim CCP is the lone exception to stoking nationalism for social or political purposes.

 

[a1a2a3a4a5a6a]

I'm not sure why you and others have problems with that statement, since it's easy to Google examples from all governments to that effect. President Obama has done it, as have other Presidents and Prime Ministers all over the world. I hope none here is so irrational as to claim CCP is the lone exception to stoking nationalism for social or political purposes.

Because such emphasis would negate the grassroot and the historical basis and rephrase nationalism in China as if it were just a political fabrication of the CCP.

 

[broadsword]

What you said doesn't negate the notion CCP stokes nationalism for its own purposes. I'm not sure why you and others have problems with that statement, since it's easy to Google examples from all governments to that effect. President Obama has done it, as have other Presidents and Prime Ministers all over the world. I hope none here is so irrational as to claim CCP is the lone exception to stoking nationalism for social or political purposes.

Four percent of China's population was lost during WWII and for some of them, the way they were dispatched makes ISIL look amateurish. If the party were to condone Japan's unrepentence, how would that make it honorable and moral? In the eyes of many of its citizens, the CCP would have become a joke, chasing economic benefits from Japan while its neighbors stood on their own principles, benefits that went to the upper strata while the masses languish.

The Japanese unrepentence rubs salt onto our visceral wounds. The bodily response is natural. There is no need for any stoking. It is for the same reason the Confederate flag rings an old pain to the blacks, even though it has only become symbolic.

But if the Japanese had repented like Germany and China went on a total recall, then I would gladly agree with you.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

Which numbers are you using?
Hate to say it but the latest numbers had been bloted twice through propaganda.