What should China do when Japan & US conduct biggest ever military drill?

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
We really do not know whether the US aircraft carrier panicked.

I do. No one panicked.The aircraft were Ided by CIC. They just did not launch the alert 5. . I dunno why.

I made 7 deployments on 5 CVs I never saw anyone panic. Those American sailors are drilled and trained on how to respond in many, many situations. Panicked?? I think not.

Any why would those sailors panic?
 

Red Moon

Junior Member
I do. No one panicked.The aircraft were Ided by CIC. They just did not launch the alert 5. . I dunno why.

I made 7 deployments on 5 CVs I never saw anyone panic. Those American sailors are drilled and trained on how to respond in many, many situations. Panicked?? I think not.

Any why would those sailors panic?

Relax, popeye! Saying they panicked is just a manner of speach. The point is just that the Russians overflew and the Americans reacted. The drills were interrupted. For a few moments? Severely disrupted? Who knows. But the Russian action was noticed officially and publicly, which is what matters to them. This is a gesture of the Russians toward China, just as Medvedev's visit to the disputed islands was not too long ago. The Russians are saying to China: "We are still with you".

And When Mao describes the Russians as courageous, he is just saying, maybe, that he wishes China would act this way too! In this, I think he's wrong. The Russians certainly win the public relations accolades. Putin is admired throughout Latin America, India, and much of the third world generally, for example. But the Chinese methods are more effective, in my opinion.
 

Red Moon

Junior Member
Y'know, Cold War never died out in Asia. Soviet Union is gone but US swing the gun barrel down at China just as quick. But unlike Soviet Union, amid all the provocations China has little to fight back, or years away from having the capability to tell the West to back off.

China needs to protest because this cuts too close to its home waters. As if being named as the aggressor ain't enough, at this range, not only China North Sea Fleet is within strike radius, same goes for China's political and key industrial capitals as well.

Don't know if that'd have impact on next year's China defense budget, but if they do, I bet on the defense-related stock will get another boost.

I have to disagree with you on this, MwRYum. The Cold War died out in Asia in the 70's, before it died out in Europe. Remember Kissinger, Nixon, and then finally, formal relations under Carter?

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, and with the incidents in 1989, it looked like it was going to start all over again, but for some reason, it didn't. Western investments kept coming in, diplomatic relations multiplied, and trade continued to flourish.

From last December until recent times, it has seemed that a new cold war was restarting, between the US and China, in Asia. But don't forget that during the Bush years, especially from 2005 on, it looked like a cold war was being reignited between the US and Russia. And now we have a "reset" in that arena.

I don't think that this campaign which the US has carried out of "pressuring" China, from the Copenhagen climate summit last year through all kinds of regional issues like Iran sanctions, the Cheonan, the South China Sea disputes, and other, more "ideological" matters such as the google dispute, can go on forever. This policy will go on, or rather, has gone on, as long as it served, or seemed to serve, American objectives. I think they don't any more. I think the G-20 meeting and the ongoing Cancun negotiations have shown that China cannot be isolated so easily. I think these international events have shown that the US is risking its own isolation when it tries to target China. I think that this is why, in October, sort of, in preparation for the G-20 meetings, Robert Gates softened the tone towards China, and why both the US and SK then seemed to take a softer stance towards the DPRK, until the recent incident. In my view, the US has changed its mind about this policy.

As far as China needing to protest, I think China is handling this just fine. And, whereas one or two months ago, China was complaining that the drills were within striking distance of Beijing, amidst the recent tension, the American press noted that Chinese complaints were not as stringent as before. You get the feeling that the Chinese leadership, implicitly, gave their OK to the maneuvers, for the time being. All of a sudden, the Chinese leadership does not feel so vulnerable, as the US leadership seems to have signalled a change of course.

Meanwhile, China still seems to be backing the DPRK wholeheartedly. Their aim, I think, is to deter the ROK government from going all out. And this time around, (unlike a few months ago) China knows that the US also wants the ROK govt to cool it.

The situation today, on the surface, seems kind of dire. I think the SK government and the Japanese right wing (Maehara, Okada, today) have not quite adjusted to the latest American twist. There is certainly danger in this situation, because sometimes, the tail can wag the dog; i.e., the Japanese right wing and the current ROK government could cause the US to act against its best wishes. But the more time passes, the more reality sinks in on the various players. Neither the ROK nor Japan, any more than Vietnam, can maintain a hostile position towards China on their own, without the support of a large outside power.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Relax, popeye!

I'm cool..

The word panic means

Panic is a sudden sensation of fear which is so strong as to dominate or prevent reason and logical thinking, replacing it with overwhelming feelings of anxiety and frantic agitation consistent with an animalistic fight or flight reaction. Panic may occur singularly in individuals or manifest suddenly in large groups as mass panic (closely related to herd behavior).

Never ever seen that on a ship. Never..
 

MwRYum

Major
I have to disagree with you on this, MwRYum. The Cold War died out in Asia in the 70's, before it died out in Europe. Remember Kissinger, Nixon, and then finally, formal relations under Carter?

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, and with the incidents in 1989, it looked like it was going to start all over again, but for some reason, it didn't. Western investments kept coming in, diplomatic relations multiplied, and trade continued to flourish.

From last December until recent times, it has seemed that a new cold war was restarting, between the US and China, in Asia. But don't forget that during the Bush years, especially from 2005 on, it looked like a cold war was being reignited between the US and Russia. And now we have a "reset" in that arena.

I don't think that this campaign which the US has carried out of "pressuring" China, from the Copenhagen climate summit last year through all kinds of regional issues like Iran sanctions, the Cheonan, the South China Sea disputes, and other, more "ideological" matters such as the google dispute, can go on forever. This policy will go on, or rather, has gone on, as long as it served, or seemed to serve, American objectives. I think they don't any more. I think the G-20 meeting and the ongoing Cancun negotiations have shown that China cannot be isolated so easily. I think these international events have shown that the US is risking its own isolation when it tries to target China. I think that this is why, in October, sort of, in preparation for the G-20 meetings, Robert Gates softened the tone towards China, and why both the US and SK then seemed to take a softer stance towards the DPRK, until the recent incident. In my view, the US has changed its mind about this policy.

As far as China needing to protest, I think China is handling this just fine. And, whereas one or two months ago, China was complaining that the drills were within striking distance of Beijing, amidst the recent tension, the American press noted that Chinese complaints were not as stringent as before. You get the feeling that the Chinese leadership, implicitly, gave their OK to the maneuvers, for the time being. All of a sudden, the Chinese leadership does not feel so vulnerable, as the US leadership seems to have signalled a change of course.

Meanwhile, China still seems to be backing the DPRK wholeheartedly. Their aim, I think, is to deter the ROK government from going all out. And this time around, (unlike a few months ago) China knows that the US also wants the ROK govt to cool it.

The situation today, on the surface, seems kind of dire. I think the SK government and the Japanese right wing (Maehara, Okada, today) have not quite adjusted to the latest American twist. There is certainly danger in this situation, because sometimes, the tail can wag the dog; i.e., the Japanese right wing and the current ROK government could cause the US to act against its best wishes. But the more time passes, the more reality sinks in on the various players. Neither the ROK nor Japan, any more than Vietnam, can maintain a hostile position towards China on their own, without the support of a large outside power.

Perhaps so, and pretty much the prevalent Chinese mentality back in the 90s believed that Cold War did over, though with a hint of suspicion is on the crosshair after the USSR crumpled, China has, though eventually will, work its way to be accepted by the West ...but after the USAF slammed 5 JDAMs into Chinese embassy in Belgrade in 1999, it became all too well that as long as China is still backward militarily they'll keep being bullied - Cold War never died, now China is the "enemy no.1"...it was from that year China really put the pedal to the metal on military buildup, to catch up all the lost years made by Deng's reign.

And also from that time on, the phrase "backwardness makes you victim of bully" uttered commonly in the official media.

If you look carefully, today's world ain't too different from that since 150 years ago...minus the colonialism and opium, with or without communism, players maybe slightly different but still the same o' "West vs East", China is still besieged in every sense of the word.

The only difference is this time China has a few cards to play, may not be killer deck but better than nothing...that's where DPRK comes in, it's a wild card but its nature determined it's destined to be bounded to China, pretty much like keeping a nasty dog just at the edge of your porch. So when the US ain't playing nice, let loose the chain by a few notch to remind others China's usefulness.

Though things get pretty complicated with DPRK recently...a heir who's unknown even by its own people, he need to establish some "tough guy" image to prove himself to the ranks, thus we got such an eventful year. Would there be more? DPRK are thugs but they ain't fools, besides China can show its displease anytime, since DPRK living on China's supplies nowadays.

South Korea and Japan might want to exploit the situation but the rivalry between themselves runs deeper and closer to the core of their respective national interest. For the US, start a war next to the locomotive of global economy recovery ain't fit to its interest either. It's one thing to rattle the saber but turn it into a real war is another matter entirely. That's why during the Diaoyu Island incident and the 2 incidents which ROK got its arse kicked, US seems to egg Japan and ROK on somewhat then chill things down.

Lastly for Japan, so long that they can't ditch the "peace constitution" they have no hope of shaking off US influence and always at the ploy of US, not the other way round.
 

jantxv

New Member
sorry, popeye, I make you angry, but this is the article that I read:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Hell of a read, gotta admit that (the web888 story). I loved it. Thank you for digging up that gem of a story.

I guess "panic" is just one of those words that will never translate that well due to cultural differences. It happens from time to time, in some cultures "scurrying around under duress" is defined as panic irregardless, even if it is purposeful and well trained scurrying around under duress.

I'm sure those of us that are bi-lingual have come across many words that seem simple and to the point that have no real adequate counter-part across the language and cultural divide.

pan·ic
1    /ˈpænɪk/ Show Spelled [pan-ik] Show IPA noun, adjective, verb, -icked, -ick·ing.
–noun
1.
a sudden overwhelming fear, with or without cause, that produces hysterical or irrational behavior, and that often spreads quickly through a group of persons or animals.
2.
an instance, outbreak, or period of such fear.
3.
Finance . a sudden widespread fear concerning financial affairs leading to credit contraction and widespread sale of securities at depressed prices in an effort to acquire cash.
4.
Slang . someone or something that is considered hilariously funny: The comedian was an absolute panic.
–adjective
5.
of the nature of, caused by, or indicating panic: A wave of panic buying shook the stock market.
6.
(of fear, terror, etc.) suddenly destroying the self-control and impelling to some frantic action.
7.
( initial capital letter ) of or pertaining to the god Pan.
–verb (used with object)
8.
to affect with panic; terrify and cause to flee or lose self-control.
9.
Slang . to keep (an audience or the like) highly amused.
–verb (used without object)
10.
to be stricken with panic; become frantic with fear: The herd panicked and stampeded.

maozedong's use of the word panic is correct use of English given definitions #5 and #6. I like definition #6. "suddenly destroying the self control"; when the Russian flights began buzzing the carrier, the state of the captain being in control of the carrier's airspace was suddenly destroyed and he had to react, yesterday, in an attempt to regain control.

"and impelling to some frantic action"; launching the alert fighters is definitely a response by being impelled to immediate action at top speed, to go about at a frantic pace.
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
:eek:ff
"and impelling to some frantic action"; launching the alert fighters is definitely a response by being impelled to immediate action at top speed, to go about at a frantic pace.

True ..stress and concern will occur but not panic. Panic is confusion.

As an example >> US Navy ships have "family day" or dependent & Tiger cruise. During these events when civillans are aboard the announcements on 1MC(loudspeakers) are changed in the event of a fire. Instead of announcing Fire! Fire! Fire! in compartment whatever.. It is anounced Foxtrot..Foxtrot in ..whatever. This is to avoid "panic" among civillians. And yes there are small fires on carriers such as burnt out fans & motors..overheated electrical. , trash etc.:eek:ff

Ok let's get back on topic!:)
 
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