alwaysfresh
New Member
The US is not going to help Columbia,unless they do not care about the US economy and people. Venezuela supplies 2 million barrels a day to the US, how are they going to replace these supplies? What does Columbia supply to the US coffee? Oil is more important.
What does Chavez say about the letters....
"We are accustomed to the lies of the Colombian government."
"Whatever they say has no importance. They can invent anything now to try to get out of that violation of Ecuadorean territory that they committed."
Chavez has the support of his people over 60 percent (Bush has less than 20%). I think Chavez could easily remove the government in Columbia, thinking on terms of military equipment and personal. The new Russians jets would be used under the Venezuela flag with experienced Russian pilots.
If there was a conflict the US could not afford to take the side of Columbia for oil reasons with Venezuela. The US military and the CIA would provide equipment and personal undercover as Colombians.
Venezuaela:
- 2 F-16 squadrons
- 3 squadron equipped with Mirage fighter-bombers
- 2 squadrons of heavier bombers, British-made Canberras
- The primary transport aircraft were the American-made C-130H and C-123
- 24 modern Sukhoi SU-30MK2 fighter jets
- 30 Su-30 Flanker air-superiority fighters
- 58 Mi-17B5 Hip H, Mi-35M Hind and Mi-26T Havoc helicopters
- 34,000-member ground forces
- 24,000-member National Guard
- Chávez has ordered a doubling of the army's reserve, to more than 100,000 troops under his personal command
Columbia
- I can't find any information... US nukes?
What does Chavez say about the letters....
"We are accustomed to the lies of the Colombian government."
"Whatever they say has no importance. They can invent anything now to try to get out of that violation of Ecuadorean territory that they committed."
Chavez has the support of his people over 60 percent (Bush has less than 20%). I think Chavez could easily remove the government in Columbia, thinking on terms of military equipment and personal. The new Russians jets would be used under the Venezuela flag with experienced Russian pilots.
If there was a conflict the US could not afford to take the side of Columbia for oil reasons with Venezuela. The US military and the CIA would provide equipment and personal undercover as Colombians.
Venezuaela:
- 2 F-16 squadrons
- 3 squadron equipped with Mirage fighter-bombers
- 2 squadrons of heavier bombers, British-made Canberras
- The primary transport aircraft were the American-made C-130H and C-123
- 24 modern Sukhoi SU-30MK2 fighter jets
- 30 Su-30 Flanker air-superiority fighters
- 58 Mi-17B5 Hip H, Mi-35M Hind and Mi-26T Havoc helicopters
- 34,000-member ground forces
- 24,000-member National Guard
- Chávez has ordered a doubling of the army's reserve, to more than 100,000 troops under his personal command
Columbia
- I can't find any information... US nukes?
Pointblank
Senior Member
That may be enough justification for the US to pressure the UN for sanctions as they could say that Chavez is supporting terrorists with WMD's... Venezuela is dependent on gasoline imports to run their economy as they lack the refining capability to refine their oil, and the only refineries able to refine Venezuelan oil are in the US. The Venezuelans need the US more than the US needs Venezuela. It's as simple as that.
The assistance story is an old one... I've read reports in which the Colombian Army, National Police, or Marine Infantry would capture FARC insurgents, and very often, they would be armed with FN FAL rifles that were originally issued to the Venezuelan army. Colombians do feel an animosity towards Chavez because he has always used hostile rhetoric against Colombia. There is the lasting impression that Chavez and his minions want to see Colombia weaken for both political and economic reasons.
The Colombian armed forces is way more proficient than the Venezuelan military. The Venezuelans may appear better on paper, but the Colombians military is bigger in terms of manpower, more professional, better equipped at the level of individual infantry, and better funded than the FAN. In terms of real combat experience, the Colombian armed forces also are light years ahead of the FAN.
Geography, infrastructure and priorities limit the likelihood of a major clash between conventional Colombian and military forces. Tanks and Su-30's are useless along most of the border region dividing both countries. Actual combat between Colombia and Venezuela likely would be low-level clashes between counter-insurgency infantry units supported by fixed-wing COIN fighter/bombers and transport helicopters. At this level of operational readiness and combat experience, the balance of power significantly favours the Colombian armed forces.
The US would most likely during a conflict stage a CSG or two off the coast of Venezuela and conduct strikes in support of the Colombian military. At most the US ground presence would be limited to instructors and maybe special forces, as it is now.
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Vlad Plasmius
Junior Member
No one can deny the proficiency of the Colombian ground forces, but they're woefully incapable in terms of air power compared to Venezuela. Colombia is lucky Venezuela hasn't received those Kilos yet.
However, one has to wonder if Colombia would be capable in a conventional conflict when most of their experience is with counter-terror operations.
Of course, Colombia isn't the only thing Chavez has to worry about.
However, one has to wonder if Colombia would be capable in a conventional conflict when most of their experience is with counter-terror operations.
Of course, Colombia isn't the only thing Chavez has to worry about.
Pointblank
Senior Member
The only real advantage the Venezuelans have over the Colombians is in the air, and American assistance via a couple CSG's can solve that. The terrain limits the involvement of air power along the border, and in any case, air power would be more limited towards long range strategic bombing between major areas, and heavily armed CAS aircraft flying in the border region.
Vlad Plasmius
Junior Member
Which is exactly why none of this talk even matters. We can debate all we like about who would cream who, but in the end Chavez would be a fool to start a scrap on America's doorstep with one of its stalwart allies in Latin America. All discussion about Colombian professionalism and Venezuelan equipment would be rendered moot.
alwaysfresh
New Member
Chavez is not looking to fight Columbia, but just overthrow the government. You just need to bomb infrastructure to do that and Venezuela has the ability. So the Columbia army is well experienced what about FARC? They have been around for long time and the reason they have not taken power is support/equipment/information Chavez provide it.
Again: 2 million barrels a day to the US, how are they going to replace these supplies? This would devastate the US economy. I predict that the US military would fall apart, it is hard to fight when things turn bad back home. If the US could replace 2 million barrels a day, Chavez is making the wrong move.
Again: 2 million barrels a day to the US, how are they going to replace these supplies? This would devastate the US economy. I predict that the US military would fall apart, it is hard to fight when things turn bad back home. If the US could replace 2 million barrels a day, Chavez is making the wrong move.
I think at this point we can confidently say you are divorced from reality. Bombing a nations' infrastructure will overthrow the government? Yeah, that worked really well in Iraq. Or Britain. Or Germany. Or Japan. And those would be massive campaign Venezuela is utterly incapable of launching.
As for the US military falling apart and the implication on economy... I think you are massively overestimating its effect, and leave it at that. What I actually wanting to say is prohibited by forum rules
Pointblank
Senior Member
I would say with the recent charges against Chavez by the Colombian government that Chavez is supporting terrorism, Colombia will most likely be given access to an ever increasing array of US military aid, and will be on the 'preferred customer list' much like how the Israeli's have access to massive US military aid if needed.
This is just my opinion, but in my opinion, the US will help Columbia precisely because it cares about its people.
To allow an individual and regime such as Chavez to support the FARC in trying to undermine and bring down our ally would set a precedent that would have far reaching negative consequences for US citizens everywhere.
Chavez has no other place at the current time to send much of his heavy crude to have it refined. He needs the US more than the US needs him in that respect. So it is I who doubt that Chavez will try anything.
If he does, the US citizenry is very capable, when neccessary, of enduring hardship in the fight against despots and wannabe tyrants. A lot is made of the US people being "soft" and too adicted to their convienences to be able to put up much of a fight.
I tell you now, most of that is from Hollywood and the media. If necessary, the American people are more than capable of enduring hardship, rationing, etc. like they did in World War II (when the same claims of softness were made by the despots of that day).
The US will support Columbia if Chavez is so foolish as to invade or attack. I hope he isn't that foolish.