I just looked at the pictures at the beginning of this thread clearly showing the bow and I remember that some forty years ago sailors were killed by waves on the fore deck of a British destroyer in the Mediterranean. Sailors will have no opportunity to work on the fore deck of a Zumwalt at sea and in a bad sea these ships are likely to be more comfortable than any other ship of the same size.
US Navy DDG 1000 Zumwalt Class
- Thread starter Scratch
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CottageLV
Banned Idiot
The Zumwalt is very similar to Commanche helicopter, only difference being it actually entered service. Since those things are too damn expensive to just prototypes. The technologies used in them are too avant garde and too expensive. Indeed they are full fledged battleships, but it is still very pan-experimental in nature. Thousands of new technologies will be tested on them and then matured, hence the cost drops so it could reborn through other programs. Although models like the Commanche, YF23, and Boeing X-32 have all been cancelled, it doesn't mean the effort was wasted. Instead, they reborn through applying the technologies verified and experienced gained from their R&D into other related programs.
Zumwalt and Commanches are too expensive to mass produce. But just like the so called "silent hawk" used in killing Laden, which definitely inherited technologies pioneered from Commanche, the mass produced successor of Arleigh Burke, perhaps even soon-to-be-built new batch of Arleigh Burkes will adopt those technologies. Since Zumwalt is too damn expensive to be built in large numbers, there must be something built to take its place. The mighty USN cannot cruise around the globe with only 3 Zumwalts and its A Burkes. Don't forget, although A. Burkes are still very advanced, they are no longer generation ahead of the 052C series destroyer and its soon to be launched successor (perhaps 052D or 053). This is unacceptable for the USN. The Pentagon's ideology since the mid-cold war is to always be a generation or two ahead of its rivals. In order to achieve the shock and awe effect, just being more advanced without generation gap is simply not enough.
This is my analysis, what do you guys think?
Zumwalt and Commanches are too expensive to mass produce. But just like the so called "silent hawk" used in killing Laden, which definitely inherited technologies pioneered from Commanche, the mass produced successor of Arleigh Burke, perhaps even soon-to-be-built new batch of Arleigh Burkes will adopt those technologies. Since Zumwalt is too damn expensive to be built in large numbers, there must be something built to take its place. The mighty USN cannot cruise around the globe with only 3 Zumwalts and its A Burkes. Don't forget, although A. Burkes are still very advanced, they are no longer generation ahead of the 052C series destroyer and its soon to be launched successor (perhaps 052D or 053). This is unacceptable for the USN. The Pentagon's ideology since the mid-cold war is to always be a generation or two ahead of its rivals. In order to achieve the shock and awe effect, just being more advanced without generation gap is simply not enough.
This is my analysis, what do you guys think?
I think technology demonstrators are more for testing 'concept' rather than specific technologies, though the ability to test these concepts require the technologies to be advanced.
Technological know hows will continue to advance, and when they are sufficiently matured the concept can then be put into mass use.
20 years ago no one could predict touch phones to be so popular. But 20 years ago there was already the concept of touch phones, and there are actually prototypes a lot earlier than apple i-phone.
Technological know hows will continue to advance, and when they are sufficiently matured the concept can then be put into mass use.
20 years ago no one could predict touch phones to be so popular. But 20 years ago there was already the concept of touch phones, and there are actually prototypes a lot earlier than apple i-phone.
Red___Sword
Junior Member
Isn't the recent sold-as-scrap seashadow more a tech demonstrator?
Many new tech and most important - new concept has been deployed to Zumwalt, but Zumwalt is still a service ship class not a demostrator. It is reasonalbe to doubt the true operational prowass against its advertisement, but I think there is no doubt of its operational worthyness itself.
Besides, if the events like BATTLESHIP (the movie) happens, Zumwalt is what America got.
Many new tech and most important - new concept has been deployed to Zumwalt, but Zumwalt is still a service ship class not a demostrator. It is reasonalbe to doubt the true operational prowass against its advertisement, but I think there is no doubt of its operational worthyness itself.
Besides, if the events like BATTLESHIP (the movie) happens, Zumwalt is what America got.
CottageLV
Banned Idiot
Like I said, zumwalt is no where near a demonstrator, it is a powerful full fledged battleship. But it does have a lot of avant garde technologies that are tested but not fully matured. The frequent usages of those technologies during service in the navy will further mature them, further tweaking any flaws and glitches.
Just like the F22, they are legitmate warmachines, but are too new and unproven.
Just like the F22, they are legitmate warmachines, but are too new and unproven.
CottageLV
Banned Idiot
At the end of the day, this is a forum about Chinese military. Do you guys think China will venture into a ship similar to Zumwalt within the next 20 years?
Personally I think it wouldn't be possible, since China will focus more on defending its fleet in the open ocean. Although the South China sea dispute is a pain in the ass, none of those countries actually have the ability to physically challenge China militarily. Even Frigates are overkills. China does have needs for super large surface combatants for its oversea interests, and especially with territorial disputes with Japan, whom is a mighty player with countless big ships.
Although future Chinese ships will inevitably borrow ideas from the Zumwalt, such as further stealthiness and automation, advanced electronics. But the signature weapon on the Zumwalt, those pre-Cold war style naval guns will not be used. China has no intention to bomb any country or invade anyone's coastal waters. Its biggest priority right now is to protect its territorial waters and scare everyone away from its merchant ships. And one day this may come, which is standing off in the open ocean against the Japanese Imperial Navy, I meant JSDF.
Personally I think it wouldn't be possible, since China will focus more on defending its fleet in the open ocean. Although the South China sea dispute is a pain in the ass, none of those countries actually have the ability to physically challenge China militarily. Even Frigates are overkills. China does have needs for super large surface combatants for its oversea interests, and especially with territorial disputes with Japan, whom is a mighty player with countless big ships.
Although future Chinese ships will inevitably borrow ideas from the Zumwalt, such as further stealthiness and automation, advanced electronics. But the signature weapon on the Zumwalt, those pre-Cold war style naval guns will not be used. China has no intention to bomb any country or invade anyone's coastal waters. Its biggest priority right now is to protect its territorial waters and scare everyone away from its merchant ships. And one day this may come, which is standing off in the open ocean against the Japanese Imperial Navy, I meant JSDF.
The F-22 has been flying since 1995, and after tweaking it achieved IOC in 2005, contrary to popular forum yack, yack, the F-22 is well proven and very capable, and a far better platform overall than the F-35 will ever be. The f-22 operates at a level that is literally physically exhausting to its pilots who are also very effective and very well trained, there are some issues that are being given immediate attention, It is and will remain our very best tactical combat aircraft , that according the USAF Air Combat Command Chief, Gen Mike Hostage, as he met with reporters to get the Raptor issues out in the open, and to express the truth about its capability. General Hostage himself will soon begin flying the Raptor until the O-2 issue is resolved, that is commitment and leadership. The Zumwalt is like the Raptor and it will be expensive, t
the question remains, what is freedom worth? The answer is whatever it takes! IMHO Brat
To be fair the F-35 has some super wahzoo weapons and systems integration upgrades that will exceed the Raptors capabilities, but as you have suggested some of these things will likely benefit the Arlieghs as well, which remain very capable!
All very well said.
The F-35 will be a GREAT aircraft if it is confined to the mission it was principly designed for, which is a strike fighter and not air dominance fighter. It can shake it up nicely with others to defend itself while it is attacking something else if it has to, but it was not designed for fleet defense or battlefield air space dominance. All three variants are designed to do what I indicated for the various services.
The F-22 is a sexy, hot, and mean fighting machine in the air. It was designed to defeat other aircraft...all comers. And it is the absolute best at that as so many red flag and other exercises with our F-15, F-18, F-16 and even foreign fighter joks have shown...against huge numerical desiparity. We need more of them...at least 500 if we are going to use them wisely and have them there in case of any large conflict.
The Zumwalt is the same kind of game changer in what it was designed to do. It is not an area air defense vessel, though it can provide great coverage while it is on its principle mission which is ground fire support for Marines and soldiers on shore, either through direct fire from its guns, or through its missiles.
Can it shoot down incoming planes and missiles? Yes. Can it engage other surface contacts? Yes. Can it engage subs? yes. It can do all of those effectively whenever it is on its way to do what it was really designed for, which is that ground support mission to replace the Battleships. It would not be utilized effectively or efficiently as an escort in a Carrier group.
we need at least eight of these vessels IMHO. Twelve would even be better.
Great video of a large section of the USS Zumwalt, DDG-1000, being joined (over 4400 tons) to other sections, and then adding sub section on top of it.
This large destroyer (really a guided missile cruiser IMHO) will displace over 14,000 tons.
[video=youtube;mwfLunTLlJc]http://www.youtube.com/embed/mwfLunTLlJc[/video]
Two 155 mm guns with a range of over 100 miles. 80 PVLS missile tubes launching cruise missiles, anti-submarine, and anti-air missile. A very large deck and helo hangar, two 57mm close in defensive weapons, great anti-submarine capability, very strong anti-mine capabilities, and a new, very powerful multi-function radar housed in a composite superstructure with very strong stealth.
The first two vessels are already under construction, with DDG 1000, Zumwalt to be launched next year (2013). the third is approved, funded, and already materials are being gathered to start her construction as soon as the 1st is launched.
This large destroyer (really a guided missile cruiser IMHO) will displace over 14,000 tons.
[video=youtube;mwfLunTLlJc]http://www.youtube.com/embed/mwfLunTLlJc[/video]
Two 155 mm guns with a range of over 100 miles. 80 PVLS missile tubes launching cruise missiles, anti-submarine, and anti-air missile. A very large deck and helo hangar, two 57mm close in defensive weapons, great anti-submarine capability, very strong anti-mine capabilities, and a new, very powerful multi-function radar housed in a composite superstructure with very strong stealth.
The first two vessels are already under construction, with DDG 1000, Zumwalt to be launched next year (2013). the third is approved, funded, and already materials are being gathered to start her construction as soon as the 1st is launched.