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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
I saw an ABC news report stating that when the helos over flew Abbottabad all communications and most of the electricity were knocked out. Were the helos emitting ECM? Or was an Prowler/Growler flying overhead? In any case it worked.
 
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Asymptote

Banned Idiot
I saw an ABC news report stating that when the helos over flew Abbottabad all communications and most of the electricity were knocked out. Were the helos emitting ECM? Or was an Prowler/Growler flying overhead? In any case it worked.

Highly doubt the stealth Blackhawk was the source of ECM - to knock out the whole city's electricity grid is pretty incredible for a chopper that carries all the combat load already. Plus if the stealth Blackhawk is the source of EM wouldn't it be bad if ECM resistant IAD SAM zero in on it and shoot it down?? So my money is with Prowler/Growler flying at higher altitude (also as diversion). Most likely EA-18G Growler because it carries AIM-120 AMRAAM so it double as air escort for the stealth Blackhawk.


Abbottabad-Pakistan-map.gif


Now, Growler/Prowler are carrier based assets - I don't think there are any carriers near the Indian ocean at this point - even if USN do, its too far to fly from Indian ocean to Abbottabad (around 1500 km - Blackhawk/Seahawk's range is 834 km, so even with external fuel pod to double its fuel capacity it will not be able to fly back to the carrier), so the stealth Blackhawk most likely to ingress from Afghanistan than flying all the way from Karachi to Abbottabad or Indian airspace (Abbottabad is in northern Pakistan, near Afghanistan), so the question is, how did it GET THERE? So there are some doubts its Prowler/Growler.

afghanistan_map_2007-worldfactbook1.gif

There is possibility its the EB-52H standoff jammer (even though its officially "terminated" in 2009) - flying from Bagram Airfield in the city of Bagram, Afganistan (practically next door to Abbottabad). But then again, EB-52H was cancelled......plus the Navy SEAL boys probably would like their own navy buddies to escort them than the USAF boys. :D
So. what do you guys think?
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Thanks Asymptote, The USS Carl Vinson was operating close enough to have OBL body flown to her. So my guess it was USN airborne ECM that knocked out the power. But it could have been the USAF. Who knows for sure??
 

Asymptote

Banned Idiot
Thanks Asymptote, The USS Carl Vinson was operating close enough to have OBL body flown to her. So my guess it was USN airborne ECM that knocked out the power. But it could have been the USAF. Who knows for sure??

bd popeye, you have served on USN for decades, I assume you know the range of Seahawk first hand. Is that 834 km range true? If it is, I just don't see how the SEALs was able to fly to USS Carl Vinson with a stealth Blackhawk. Like I stated before, assuming if external fuel pods double the range of the stealth Blackhawk to 1688 km range, it still has to fly from Bagram airbase to Abbottabad . That's another 500 km at least. I am just puzzle at the logistics of this. If they fly in from Bagram then fly out on the same route (unlikely, since it high risk of interception on known route), how do they fly out to sea ? What's a long range transport that can land on USN carrier?
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
one of the problems though is that external tanks are not stealthy unless theses ones are fitted with some kind of conformal tanks the second you add the external pods the gig is up it's just a extra heavy MH60. We know that the seals members of Red Squad Devgru. The thing is they were not forword deployed according too navy times they were state side before the operation.
Navy times said:
SEALs in bin Laden raid drawn from Red Squadron

By Sean D. Naylor - Staff writer
Posted : Thursday May 5, 2011 22:37:30 EDT

The SEALs who assaulted Osama bin Laden’s compound were drawn from Naval Special Warfare Development Group’s Red Squadron, according to several sources in the special operations community.

DevGru, as the Development Group is usually known, is the Naval Special Warfare Command’s “Tier 1” special mission unit, the Navy equivalent of the Army’s 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment — Delta, or Delta Force. It includes four line squadrons: Blue, Gold, Red and the recently-formed Silver Squadrons, a recently retired SEAL officer said. In addition, DevGru, sometimes known by its original name of SEAL Team 6, has a strategic reconnaissance element named Black Squadron, which is “a whole different animal,” he said.

Red Squadron was picked for the mission because it was ready at DevGru’s Dam Neck, Va., headquarters and available for tasking. “It was Red Squadron,” the recently retired SEAL officer said. “They were not on alert and they weren’t deployed.”

Like the other line squadrons, Red Squadron has about 50 operators, “of which they picked about half of them for this thing,” he added.
So they had too be shipped in country fast. Perhaps The Air force loaded the two blackest blackhawks on a C5 or C17 they ship in country. not necessarily too Bagram but a airbase We know that those Black Blackhawks started in operation but not from where, and remember one was lost we don't know how many the Us used but we assume at least 2 the standard troop load for a Mh60 is maxed at about 16 that's a crew of 4: 2 pilots 2 door gunners plus 12 armed SEALS You can not double up the load of a helicopter 16 is 16 not 25. that is already loaded too the max and this stealth is said too be a heavy mother when compared too the regular black hawk so assume then that the original story comes in. The Army has two Mh47's on standby when the radio call comes in that one of the black blackhawks is non flyable. The Seals Take it out but leave the tail The MH47's break the boarder and fly nap of the earth. pick up the party well the remaining Black Blackhawk fly's too a secondary site well the Chinooks cargo in hand fly too the CVN. or too a FOB where another Transport is waiting perhaps a v22.I think though it's more likely that the Seals took the Chinooks too the Carrier. The black might be topped off at a landing site or airborne via Mc130J and then returned too a hanger where the door is locked and it's prepped fore transport out.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Stars And Stripes said:
Ospreys will replace Sea Knights at Futenma, Marine Corps says
By Travis J. Tritten and Chiyomi Sumida
Stars and Stripes
Published: June 2, 2011


TEAS-Osprey
Two generals are at odds about the cause of a CV-22 crash in April that killed two of the three cockpit crew members and two passengers. Brig. Gen. Donald Harvel, the accident investigation board's president, believes engine problems were at fault; Lt. Gen. Kurt Cichowski, to whom Harvel answered during the investigation, blames aircrew errors.
U.S. Air Force

CAMP FOSTER, Okinawa — The Marine Corps confirmed Thursday that it plans to replace helicopters based at Futenma air station on Okinawa with the Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft, a move that could complicate already tense U.S.-Japan relations involving the island.

The Ospreys could begin arriving at Futenma in 2013 as part of a worldwide effort to upgrade the Marine Corps’ aging fleet of Vietnam War-era Sea Knight helicopters, according to the 3rd Marine Expeditionary Force and Marine Corps Bases Japan public affairs office.

The aircraft, which can take off like a helicopter and fly like a propeller airplane, has already been put into combat service in Iraq and Afghanistan, and despite a rocky development stage, has had few reported accidents during the past four years of combat flights.

But the Okinawa government has staunchly opposed locating the new aircraft at Futenma, calling them too “dangerous” for a military base located in a densely populated area. In 2004, a Marine Corps Sea Stallion helicopter based at the air station crashed on the neighboring campus of a Japanese university. The event continues to invoke animosity toward the large U.S. military presence on the island.

“At Marine Corps Air Station Futenma, 24 CH-46 [Sea Knight] helicopters will be replaced by 24 MV-22 [Osprey] tilt-rotor aircraft,” according to a Marine Corps written response to a Stars and Stripes inquiry. “Although we anticipate that the MV-22 will be deployed to Okinawa starting in fiscal year 2013, no final decisions have been made regarding the timing of their arrival.”

The Futenma air station is scheduled to be relocated to an area farther north near the city of Nago following an agreement between the U.S. and Japanese governments, meaning the Ospreys could quickly be moved from the urban area around Futenma to an area less populated.

But the relocation plans have been under intense pressure for years due to opposition from Okinawans who want the base moved off the island. The island makes up a powerful lobby in Japan that has bedeviled the Tokyo government and caused the resignation of former Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama because he could not make good on promises involving Futenma.

Ginowan, where the air station is located, came out strongly against the Osprey plans Thursday.
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“If the plan is pursued, Ginowan City and its residents will take every action necessary to stop it,” said Shigeo Yamauchi, chief of the city’s military affairs office.

Tatsuo Oyakawa, chief of the Okinawa prefectural government’s Military Affairs Office, told Stars and Stripes on Thursday that Okinawa will oppose the plan with one voice.

“Futenma air station is a facility that is supposed to be closed,” Oyakawa said. “Arrival of the Osprey is an addition to an already-heavy burden on residents in communities surrounding the air station.”

Meanwhile, members of the Senate Armed Services Committee last month criticized the cost of U.S. military plans to move Futenma north and said the plan should be abandoned, striking a powerful blow on the U.S. side of the equation.

The Ospreys and the growing scrutiny over costs threaten to ratchet up tension in advance of an expected June 21 meeting on the Futenma relocation and a planned military realignment in the region between Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Japan Defense Minister Toshimi Kitazawa and Japan Foreign Minister Takeaki Matsumoto.
Navytimes said:
Plan extends some ships’ service to 70 years

By Christopher P. Cavas - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday May 31, 2011 17:42:03 EDT

The Navy’s two command ships, each about 40 years old, are busy vessels. The Japan-based Blue Ridge, flagship of the U.S. Seventh Fleet, recently completed a cruise around the Far East and supported relief operations in Japan. The Mount Whitney, flagship of the Sixth Fleet in the Mediterranean, served as a headquarters ship for the initial coalition strikes in March against Libya.

The ships are at a stage in their service lives where the Navy normally might be expected to plan for replacements. But in a recent update to the 30-year shipbuilding plans, the ships have been extended to serve another 28 years — until 2039.

That would mean the Blue Ridge, launched in January 1969, will have spent more than 70 years in the water. The Mount Whitney is one year younger.
Discuss:

70-year-old command ships?

A notional replacement ship, dubbed LCC(X) — or sometimes JCC(X), where the “J” stood for “Joint” — has faded in and out of several previous 30-year plans. The ships were always dropped for affordability reasons. The Navy then planned for the current ships to remain in service until 2029, and now has extended that deadline.

The 70-year planned service life might be a new record for an active Navy ship. Aircraft carriers are intended to serve for 50 years, and most surface combatants such as cruisers and destroyers are planned for 30-, 35- or 40-year lives. Only the sail frigate Constitution, a museum ship in Boston that was launched in 1797, has been in service longer, and she was never expected to last this long.

The revised command ship schedule is contained in an updated version of the Navy’s 30-year plan sent to Congress in mid-May. The updates consist of several tables and a cover letter, and lack the explanations and written information provided in the full plan. Copies of some of the tables were acquired by Defense News.

Starting in 2011, the Navy is no longer required to submit a full plan each year to Congress, but rather is to tie the document to the Quadrennial Defense Review, a strategy document issued ever four years that outlines the requirements for U.S. military forces. Some in Congress, including Rep. Rob Wittman, R-Va., would rather return to annual filing requirements. Wittman, chairman of the House Armed Services oversight and investigations subcommittee, has scheduled a hearing on the matter for June 1.

No major changes are in the new fleet plan, but some of the tweaks include:

• As expected, a DDG 51-class Flight IIA destroyer was added in 2014, raising the number from one to two ships to be ordered. The Navy has previously discussed this addition, which is based on a multiyear procurement plan starting in 2013.

• A fourth littoral combat ship has been added to 2012, as reflected in the 2012 budget request.

• Purchases of the T-AO fleet oilers have been brought forward to 2014 — also previously announced.

• An extra T-AGOS ocean surveillance ship has been added in 2013.

• One Joint High Speed Vessel has been eliminated in 2016, going from two to one.

• The plan still reflects a Mobile Landing Platform ship in 2013, but that ship will be eliminated, as called for in the 2011 defense budget finally passed in early May. The Navy intends to buy three MLPs, the third of which is in the 2012 budget request.

• In the outyears, the Navy cut an LSD(X) landing ship dock replacement ship from 2039 and now plans to build 11 of the ships.

• The first LPD(X) amphibious transport dock replacement is set for 2040.

• A big-deck assault ship is planned for 2041.

• The buys for LCS replacement ships in the 2030s have been beefed up, with three instead of two ships per year now scheduled for 2036 through 2041.

• A new surface combatant, previously designated DDG(X), has become the DDG 51 Flight IV, scheduled to begin in 2032 with two ships per year through 2041, except for three ships in 2036. The move means the basic DDG 51 Arleigh Burke-class design, first procured in 1985, will be bought continuously for at least 56 years.

The plan does not address shortfalls in major surface combatants — cruisers and destroyers — or in attack submarines.

With all ships accounted for, the revised plan shows the Navy purchasing 270 ships from 2012 through 2041, plus another five JHSVs using Army funds.
Army times said:
Mullen: Pace of Afghan withdrawal undecided

The Associated Press
Posted : Thursday Jun 2, 2011 13:13:05 EDT

WASHINGTON — As the Obama administration awaits the Pentagon’s recommendation on troop cuts in Afghanistan, military leaders warned Thursday that the reduction must not jeopardize the progress made there in the past year.

The top commander in Afghanistan, Gen. David Petraeus, has not yet made his recommendation on the widely expected withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan. But it will come in the next few weeks and move rapidly after that, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Thursday.

Adm. Mike Mullen warned that while no one knows yet how deep the initial cut will be, it must not erode the progress that troops have made in the past year.

Some lawmakers have suggested that the killing of Osama bin Laden last month should result in a more rapid end to the U.S. involvement in the protracted war.

President Obama has said that the drawdown of troops will begin in July. Obama is likely to announce his decision late this month about the size of that initial withdrawal. Military officials also expect a forecast for further withdrawals over the next several months.

The No. 2 U.S. commander in Afghanistan said Thursday that over the coming months, Afghan forces must be pushed into the lead in more regions across the country.

“We have to start taking more risk and have more trust in them,” Lt. Gen. David Rodriguez said, speaking to a conference at the Center for a New American Security.

He said he expects Afghan leaders to decide in August which additional regions in the country can be shifted from U.S. to Afghan military control.

Herat, western Afghanistan’s largest city, is one of seven areas scheduled to be handed over to Afghan control in July as the first step of the transition of nationwide security responsibility to the Afghan troops.

There are roughly 100,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan.
You should never ever tell the enemy when you're pulling out It's like telling your kids when you're going on your Second honey moon they are Guaranteed too cause trouble at that time.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
US DoD Secretary R. Gates assures Asian allies the US will not scale back its forces in the Pacific.

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Seeking to reassure Asian allies mindful of China's growing power and Washington's fiscal troubles, Gates told a security conference in Singapore that Washington's commitment to the region would not be scaled back. Instead, the U.S. military will expand its presence in Southeast Asia, sharing facilities with Australia in the Indian Ocean and deploying new littoral combat ships (LCS) to Singapore, where it has access to naval facilities, he said.

The LCS is a speedy, lighter ship designed to operate in shallow coastal waters.

Gates, who steps down at the end of the month after more than four years as Pentagon chief, said the U.S. military planned to deepen its engagement with countries across the Pacific, with more port calls and training programs.

The U.S. military will be positioned in a way "that maintains our presence in Northeast Asia while enhancing our presence in Southeast Asia and into the Indian Ocean," Gates said.

The speech came as countries facing a rising China watch the United States for signs of its long-term security plans in Asia, amid mounting disputes over territorial rights in the potentially resource-rich South China Sea.

"The U.S. position on maritime security remains clear: we have a national interest in freedom of navigation; in unimpeded economic development and commerce; and in respect for international law," Gates said.

Citing investments in new radar-evading aircraft, surveillance drones, warships and space and cyber weapons, Gates said the United Sates is "putting our money where our mouth is with respect to this part of the world - and will continue to do so."

The planned weapons programs represented "capabilities most relevant to preserving the security, sovereignty, and freedom of our allies and partners in the region," he said.

The programs also include maintaining America's nuclear "deterrence" amid continuing concern over North Korea's atomic weapons.

Senior U.S. officers have long pointed to China's military buildup, saying Beijing's pursuit of anti-ship and anti-aircraft missiles as well as cyber warfare capabilities pose a potential threat to US naval power in the region.

Without naming China, Gates said the new hardware was a response to "the prospect that new and disruptive technologies and weapons could be employed to deny US forces access to key sea routes and lines of communications."

Although the Pentagon's budget would come under growing scrutiny and military spending in some areas would be cut back, Gates predicted that investments in the key "modernization" programs would be left untouched.

"These programs are on track to grow and evolve further in the future, even in the face of new threats abroad and fiscal challenges at home."

This would ensure "that we will continue to meet our commitments as a 21st century Asia-Pacific nation - with appropriate forces, posture, and presence", he said.

Looking back on US policy in Asia since he took over at the Pentagon in 2006, Gates said the military had bolstered ties with old allies, such as Japan and South Korea, as well with new partners, including India and Vietnam.

The speech reflected how Washington has sought to strike a delicate balance between countering a more assertive Chinese military with a bigger presence in the region while seeking to defuse tensions through dialogue and exchanges.

Gates, who held talks with his Chinese counterpart Liang Guanglie on June 3, said efforts to promote a security dialogue with China had borne fruit and that military relations had "steadily improved in recent months."
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
US DoD Secretary R. Gates assures Asian allies the US will not scale back its forces in the Pacific.

Seeking to reassure Asian allies mindful of China's growing power and Washington's fiscal troubles, Gates told a security conference in Singapore that Washington's commitment to the region would not be scaled back. Instead, the U.S. military will expand its presence in Southeast Asia, sharing facilities with Australia in the Indian Ocean and deploying new littoral combat ships (LCS) to Singapore, where it has access to naval facilities, he said.

The LCS is a speedy, lighter ship designed to operate in shallow coastal waters.
Speaking of the speedy, steatlthy Litoral Combat Ship (LCS)...


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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
US & Japan endorse Okinawa base plan.

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US, Japan endorse Okinawa base plan

SINGAPORE (AFP) – US and Japanese defence chiefs on Friday renewed their support for a controversial plan to relocate an American base on Japan's Okinawa island, saying it was the most viable way forward.

After holding talks at an Asia security summit in Singapore, US Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Japan's Defence Minister Toshimi Kitazawa issued a joint statement saying "the current relocation plan is the most operationally viable and politically sustainable way forward".

Under the plan, agreed in 2006 after years of negotiations, the United States would move the flashpoint Futenma base out of a crowded urban area to an isolated stretch of coast elsewhere on Okinawa.

Before arriving in Singapore, Gates suggested the Obama administration was not ready to overhaul the plan despite a call from three US senators to consider alternatives.

The senators, Carl Levin, John McCain and Jim Webb, last month called for the United States to review base realignment plans in East Asia due to political opposition in Japan and cost overruns in both Japan and South Korea.

The senators said Japan needed to focus on reconstruction work after its massive March 11 earthquake and not be distracted by the base dispute, which contributed to last year's resignation of the then prime minister, Yukio Hatoyama.

In their statement, Gates and Kitazawa "agreed to continue to explore measures to mitigate the impact of the US presence on Okinawa".
 

Spartan95

Junior Member
The Shangri-La Dialogue (SLD) is currently happening in Singapore, and there's quite a bit of coverage on its proceedings (as with every year when it happens). Anyway, relevant to this thread is the speech given by US Secretary of Defense at the SLD. The full speech is available here:

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Some portions that I found to be interesting:

.....

We are also now working together with China to build a positive, cooperative, and comprehensive relationship. In that effort, we are seeing the fruits of bold decisions by three American presidents in the 1970s, Republicans and Democrats, to build a rapport between the two nations that ultimately resulted in the normalization of relations in 1979.

......

Maritime security remains an issue of particular importance for the region, with questions about territorial claims and the appropriate use of the maritime domain presenting on-going challenges to regional stability and prosperity. The U.S. position on maritime security remains clear: we have a national interest in freedom of navigation; in unimpeded economic development and commerce; and in respect for international law. We also believe that customary international law, as reflected in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, provides clear guidance on the appropriate use of the maritime domain, and rights of access to it. By working together in appropriate regional and multilateral fora, and adhering to principles that we believe are of benefit to all in the region, we can ensure that all share equal and open access to international waterways.

........

In the coming years, the U.S. military is going to be increasing its port calls, naval engagements, and multilateral training efforts with multiple countries throughout the region. These types of activities not only broaden and deepen our relationships with friends and allies, they help build partner capacity to address regional challenges.

.......

Many of those key modernization programs would address one of the principal security challenges we see growing over the horizon: The prospect that new and disruptive technologies and weapons could be employed to deny U.S. forces access to key sea routes and lines of communication.



The U.S. Navy and Air Force have been concerned about anti-access and area denial scenarios for some time. These two military services are working together to develop a new concept of operations – called “Air-Sea Battle” – to ensure that America’s military will continue to be able to deploy, move, and strike over great distances in defense of our allies and vital interests.

Some portions of the speech seem to be missing from the link above though.
 
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