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Dante80

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't think that you are watching it for historical accuracy, right? It's pretty well known how it fares in that department.

Poe's law.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
You shouldn’t be however the movie frames itself as if it is. Many people will even enter the military topic conversation and Quote the Pentagon wars verbatim as if it was the holy scriptures. Even the post script screen is played as if it’s fact. It claims that Israel knew of the “issues” with the Bradley and had them fixed for its service…
When it’s complete BS. Because the problem the movie claims to plague the Bradley didn’t exist and Israel never bought Bradley’s.
However HBO didn’t care.
HBO at the time made a number of movies like that that perpetuated myths and conspiracy theories of the Defense Department. It’s the same with the decades of Pro Russian propaganda TV networks perpetrated. Discovery Channel, the History Channel, A&E TV perpetuated this for decades often calling in so called experts whom perpetuated those myths including themselves. So any time I see that movie brought up. It has to be stomped down for the disservice it has done.


Well yes delays and set backs take place it’s often par for the course as situations change and new problems emerge. Particularly as when things it is doing isn’t as straightforward as many like to imagine.
When the FREMM was designed its mission set and equipment was based on the needs of the French and Italian navy. Its more multi mission than the USN needed because the USN tends to move more of those missions to Destroyers and aircraft.
The USN has different needs so to get the Constellation class, They wanted the hull but had to revise the whole system. Basically it’s a different ship. Of course it’s more complicated. This isn’t like the USAF E7 where they are taking an existing product and putting it in the same mission. As such the Constellation is a completely new class of ship. With a completely new production system being developed.
 

Dante80

Junior Member
Registered Member
You shouldn’t be however the movie frames itself as if it is. Many people will even enter the military topic conversation and Quote the Pentagon wars verbatim as if it was the holy scriptures. Even the post script screen is played as if it’s fact. It claims that Israel knew of the “issues” with the Bradley and had them fixed for its service…
When it’s complete BS. Because the problem the movie claims to plague the Bradley didn’t exist and Israel never bought Bradley’s.
However HBO didn’t care.
HBO at the time made a number of movies like that that perpetuated myths and conspiracy theories of the Defense Department. It’s the same with the decades of Pro Russian propaganda TV networks perpetrated. Discovery Channel, the History Channel, A&E TV perpetuated this for decades often calling in so called experts whom perpetuated those myths including themselves. So any time I see that movie brought up. It has to be stomped down for the disservice it has done.
The Pentagon Wars was never produced as a historical realistic depiction about a military program but as a clear cut absurdist satire of military spending in general. Bradley is simply used as a mechanism for comedy.

The concept of the military spending pork barrel tho, as well as the revolving door phenomenon are pretty well known and documented. Comedy aside.

Well yes delays and set backs take place it’s often par for the course as situations change and new problems emerge. Particularly as when things it is doing isn’t as straightforward as many like to imagine.
When the FREMM was designed its mission set and equipment was based on the needs of the French and Italian navy. Its more multi mission than the USN needed because the USN tends to move more of those missions to Destroyers and aircraft.
The USN has different needs so to get the Constellation class, They wanted the hull but had to revise the whole system. Basically it’s a different ship. Of course it’s more complicated. This isn’t like the USAF E7 where they are taking an existing product and putting it in the same mission. As such the Constellation is a completely new class of ship. With a completely new production system being developed.

It's not really about that in my honest opinion. The FREMM is already a capable frigate, and the entire point of the Constellation project was basically to outsource the design process because the Navy has seemingly forgotten how to do that. But they promptly took the designs, threw them away, started building, began adding new designs, went over budget, and are now complaining that the ship isn’t a destroyer.

To my mind the problem isn’t a small ship / big ship issue, it’s that the USN procurement process needs to be unfucked.
 

RobertC

Junior Member
Registered Member
That is actually common practice beyond the USN.
It's arguably a common practice but that doesn't make it a good practice, especially for the USN.

And in the specific instance of the Constellation, it's a failed practice for two of the three acquisition metrics: Cost and Schedule. The all-too-distant future will inform the third metric: Performance.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Wait for the election... big chance that the program will return back to the bidding and contract award phaze of the project...
Which if history proves would make matters worse as the relaunch takes at least another 2 years.
It's arguably a common practice but that doesn't make it a good practice, especially for the USN.

And in the specific instance of the Constellation, it's a failed practice for two of the three acquisition metrics: Cost and Schedule. The all-too-distant future will inform the third metric: Performance.
The aim was to use an existing hull design. What alternative was there? The LCS hull’s? The Burke class? It would have been the same. A new hull? That would have cost even more. Catch 22.
 
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