US Laser and Rail Gun Development News

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

Jeff Head said:

High Energy Laser destroys rocket in flight from mobile ground launcher/firing system in May 2013.

[video=youtube;dL9_Tldmrhs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL9_Tldmrhs[/video]
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The slow motion shows how the missile is destroyed relatively quickly.

Naval Laser Weapons System (Laws) Shoots down drone from the helipad of a US Arleigh Burke Destroyer underway at sea in April 2013.

[video=youtube;gBuiPZm6hK4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBuiPZm6hK4[/video]
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I like the view from the UAV that shows how quickly the Laws causes the UAV to burst into flames.

These weapons are moving along rapidly now, both on land and at sea.

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As exciting as it is for me to see laser hard kill weapons become reality, especially with US leading the way, it does disturb me regarding how the power of these weapons can be used in a 'hand of God' way to assasinate.

Drones today already may as well be 'hand of God' weapons used, for all practical purposes, to assasinate but at least there is still evidence that can be gathered and the attacker identified after the fact. What trace is there of the attack and evidence of the attacker when it comes to laser weaponry?

It might sound like a ridiculous sci-fi TV movie but imagine the confusion and chaos that could be caused by laser weaponry assasinations of one or more world leaders, or even run-of-the-mill civilians... it would be crazy!

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

Even in the cold war people got bumped off with little evidence of who don it. A laser needs a emitter a bomb needs a casing a rail gun needs a projectile.all you have to do is find out what was flying in the air space.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

PanAsian said:

As exciting as it is for me to see laser hard kill weapons become reality, especially with US leading the way, it does disturb me regarding how the power of these weapons can be used in a 'hand of God' way to assasinate.

Drones today already may as well be 'hand of God' weapons used, for all practical purposes, to assasinate but at least there is still evidence that can be gathered and the attacker identified after the fact. What trace is there of the attack and evidence of the attacker when it comes to laser weaponry?

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Hand held, or small lasers are a long, long way off. Did you see the size of the equipment on the back of the Destroyer that is used. It will be some time before they are even small enough to replace a CIWS.

So, I would not worry about a hand-held, or even air launched version from a UAV for a good while yet.

We had a laser we could fire from an aircraft, but it took an entire 747 to carry it.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

Take a look at lightcraft and beam propulsion, especially laser beam propulsion.


The electromagnetic accelerator on the Ford class might have some benefits for railgun research, but I'm not convinced that a railgun will ever be a useful CIWS. It must be very heavy and long, making it unsuitable to fast movement for multiple targeting.
Powerful laser beams can heat a propellant to high temperature and quickly redirect the beam. This does allow for numerous very simple lightcrafts to be accelaterated towards some target at the same time.
Applications would be shrinking the laser on the 747 and put it on an A-10 (manned or unmanned) that gets increased range.
The other are CIWS with weapons that have projectile speeds far in excess of current capabilities and corrections by fine tuned laser application (on a base bleed for less speed loss of high speed munitions). The kickback is negligible because you can accelerate them in a tube always open at both ends. This allows for more rapid loading and firing of all tubes at once, say 2- times faster loading, all 6 tubes then means 12 times the firepower for a CIWS, double the speed and its over two times the distance, thus 24 times the capability.

It's good to have the railgun, but I doubt it can suceed over lasers. Lasers are also heavy for their weight, but you can have the energy storage in a fixed installation and only move the beam and some acceleration tubes (out of a lightweight and heat resistant material). The technology itself, for managing the laser, is simple in comparison to the multiple redundant components of a railgun. The problem is the high weight and volume of the laser per Joule energy storage and managing the immense amount of power on release.
The bonus of a laser is, you can direct it towards multiple uses, from helping in the boost phase of all missiles (from booster for cruise missiles to small CIWS missiles) to CIWS accelerator to anti-satellite applications (including sending small objects into space and communication) to directed energy beams against suitable targets.
First places to apply lasers will be ships, because of the weight and bulkiness issue and the bonus of many different applications for one high energy system. The first kind of aircraft with laser powered weapons will be an A-10 look-alike.
If lasers will ever be lightweight enough to provide CIWS for tanks, they will also be suitable as most expensive handguns, but it's unlikely that they will do as weapons without a projectile over any significant distance.

Lasers are high energy release systems, modern warfare relies on radio silence and obtaining targeting solution more rapid and precise when electromagnetic wave emissions systems are switched on. Laser power allows to make extremely powerful and precise Electromagnetic transmissions for obtaining target information.
I believe the way towards elctrification is an intermediary stage before having integrated laser power on ships for all applications that benefit from sudden bursts of power emission.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

To be honest, I don't see laser guns being a actual military option for some time; unless, unless you have a distinct need. Projectile weapons are still more cost effective options, the only place I can see laser hand weapons becoming a distinct need is in low gravity. Because recoil from a projectile weapon would result in uncontrolled movement of a unsecured shooter.
where I do see a future is a active defense option application for vehicles and aircraft.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

PanAsian said:

As exciting as it is for me to see laser hard kill weapons become reality, especially with US leading the way, it does disturb me regarding how the power of these weapons can be used in a 'hand of God' way to assasinate.

Drones today already may as well be 'hand of God' weapons used, for all practical purposes, to assasinate but at least there is still evidence that can be gathered and the attacker identified after the fact. What trace is there of the attack and evidence of the attacker when it comes to laser weaponry?

It might sound like a ridiculous sci-fi TV movie but imagine the confusion and chaos that could be caused by laser weaponry assasinations of one or more world leaders, or even run-of-the-mill civilians... it would be crazy!

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no worries... while chemical/energy type weaponry looks like an obvious revolution, projectile weaponry will always be here to stay no matter how advance lasers get. There are just some things a very high speed chunk of metal can do that lasers just can't no matter what.

Besides lasers are useless against Borgs anyway! If the crew of USS Enterprise had carried 500 yr old AK-47s the Borgs would've lost.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

TerraN_EmpirE said:

To be honest, I don't see laser guns being a actual military option for some time; unless, unless you have a distinct need. Projectile weapons are still more cost effective options, the only place I can see laser hand weapons becoming a distinct need is in low gravity. Because recoil from a projectile weapon would result in uncontrolled movement of a unsecured shooter.
where I do see a future is a active defense option application for vehicles and aircraft.

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You confuse some things.
A laser gun can be a gun with a laser as energy source for an inert propellant that drives a projectile through a tube.
Not much difference to gunpowder weapons, except the higher power rate and that the tube can be open at both ends.

Laser beams as directed energy weapons are not laser guns, but directed energy weapons. These do have possible applications at very close range. Calling a directed energy weapon a "laser gun" is an erronous slang term influenced by science fiction special effects cinematography.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

The price. My friend the price

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

TerraN_EmpirE said:

The price. My friend the price

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The price is lower for a laser that heats a propellant for a projectile than for a directed energy doom ray.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

Kurt said:

The electromagnetic accelerator on the Ford class might have some benefits for railgun research, but I'm not convinced that a railgun will ever be a useful CIWS. It must be very heavy and long, making it unsuitable to fast movement for multiple targeting.

The other are CIWS with weapons that have projectile speeds far in excess of current capabilities and corrections by fine tuned laser application (on a base bleed for less speed loss of high speed munitions). The kickback is negligible because you can accelerate them in a tube always open at both ends. This allows for more rapid loading and firing of all tubes at once, say 2- times faster loading, all 6 tubes then means 12 times the firepower for a CIWS, double the speed and its over two times the distance, thus 24 times the capability.

It's good to have the railgun, but I doubt it can suceed over lasers. Lasers are also heavy for their weight, but you can have the energy storage in a fixed installation and only move the beam and some acceleration tubes (out of a lightweight and heat resistant material). The technology itself, for managing the laser, is simple in comparison to the multiple redundant components of a railgun. The problem is the high weight and volume of the laser per Joule energy storage and managing the immense amount of power on release.

Click to expand...

The Ford class is using an electromagnetic catapult system which employs similar technolgy.

But actual rail guns themselves are already very advanced in the US and being live foire tested as we speak/converse. The outgrowth of that development will very soon produce both anti-surface bambardment rail guns, and CIWS rail guns to be employed on US Naval vessels.

Depending on the mass being accelerated, the rail gun can certinly be small enough and agile enough to accomplish this mission. Generral Atomics is live fire testing scuh appilications right now. They expect to field various sized and caliber rail guns to US Naval vessels this decade, late in the teens, emplying both missions (ie. surface attack and CIWS). There is a video of their weapons on this thread that speaks to this capability. Basically in the CIWS application, the projectile is not hit to kill, it has a proximity sensor which releases a cloud of projectiles into the path of the oncoming target.

As to using laser to propel mass, that is possible, but the much more applicable and already developed methodolgy, that avoids a traditional chemically activated propellant, is the Metal Storm technology, which is also called, "electronically initiated superposed load weapons technology." This in essence loads the projectiles into the firing barrel, and then sequentially activates their propellant, which is contained in a skirt on the back of the projectile, electronically.

These weapons have significant enhancements in terms of both fire rate and muzzle velocity. I expect that technology to continue to mature and be in use in advance of laser propelled projectiles.

Now, as to a Laser CIWS...those (in several varieties) are also well advanced in teh US now, and as shwon are also being live fire tested. However, shooting doan a UAV is one thing, shooting down an incoming multipl-mach missile is another.

Anyhow, the interesting race is between actual laser weapons like the one shown in the last video and that I just discussed, and the rail gun technology I referred to.