US Laser and Rail Gun Development News

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

Yes Kurt lower then a directed energy weapon but not lower then a conventionally operated weapon. That's the kicker. Using a laser fired bullet maybe cool but its no where near cheaper then a conventionally operated assault rifle.

same problem for metal storm. Both have potential for larger more specialized uses but in small arms there limitations usually out weight there advantages.
there are however exceptions for metal storm there is interest in use as lightweight accessories weapons, IE grenade launchers and under barrel mounted shotguns. The problem for metal storm is that the magazine is the barrel. Jeff's description is mostly accurate but misses that point. In order to reload the weapon one has to replace the barrel, in order to load the barrel one has so send it to a facility equipped to do so. This is the same flaw as the HK P11 underwater pistol which also uses preloaded barrels and is the only gun beyond the prototypes stage that takes longer then the world war 2 era Liberator to reload.
now for a ship reloading the barrel is a possibility as they have room for machine shops that could service and maintain preloaded barrels but for infantry small arms not so much.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

TerraN_EmpirE said:

The problem for metal storm is that the magazine is the barrel. Jeff's description is mostly accurate but misses that point. In order to reload the weapon one has to replace the barrel, in order to load the barrel one has so send it to a facility equipped to do so.

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Not necessarily, depending on the application.

I did indicate that all the projectiles are lined up in the same barrel in my description.

Metal Storm would provide reloads in the sense that you would load a new barrel filled with bullets onto the weapon like you load a new mag now. This is obviously much more impractical on the battlefield for individual soldiers...but on a ship, with an auto-reload system designed around it, it would work splendidly.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

Sorry Jeff I saw "loads" and made a assumption.
in any event metal storm does have some field potential other then navy, for example I feel the it may offer potential replacement for cannons found in aircraft, so for example the sixth Gen program fighter might not have a cannon like the raptor or lightning instead a metal storm based weapon might be installed, the advantage of which is reduced weight and potentially more reliable operation in high G maneuvers. integrated into a armored vehicles Active defense system as part of the hard kill system Metal storm could offer faster reaction times, and higher countermeasures capacity reducing casualties.
used as a possible smart replacement for systems like the mines area denial could be used repeatedly against identified hostiles well leaving allies, animals and noncombatants alone, you set up a indirect fire metal storm and a bunch os sensors and presto. additionally such a system might offer a replacement for mortars.
armaments for UGVs that would prevent a enemy who managed to disable it from salvaging a functional weapon.
stretching out how about metal storm armed UCAVs perhaps even using unmanned tech and advanced missile tech we might see a vertically launched fighter drone capable of changing direction in greater then 120* turns and armed with metal storm weapons to disable defences before impacting for the kill.

lots of potential but for small arms the cost and complexity of the preloaded barrel as well as its limitations of capacity is a limiter.
the accessories shot gun for example has been under marine development it is called MAUL 12 it only has a five round capacity, now compare that to the Masterkey from KAC based on the Remington 870 with a four round capacity and its superior but vs the C more systems M26 which is magazine feed and has previsions for 3-5-8 round magazines both the master key and Mass are reloadable by the shooter.. The accessory grenade launcher has a three round load, superior in first shots sure but a M203 or MK13 mod0 or HK M320 is reloadable in the field and a shooter can change types of rounds well the metal storm unit can only use what is in the barrel. The move for small arms in my opinion is polymer based cartridge cases. They are now becoming a reality offer reduced weight and compatibility with existing weapons.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

I think that laser weapons will truly shine (pun intended) once hypersonic aerial vehicles like the SR-52 enter service. Such vehicles offer significant challenges to conventional projectile air defence, since they are capable of ballistic missile level speeds but maneuverable compared to reentering warheads. Once you reduce the beam exposure time and account for atmospheric distortion at greater ranges, you can gain a reliable countermeasure against enemy reconnaissance/strike.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

Adaptive optics mean laser systems are becoming more and more scalable the question if power. Which is also becoming more and more available. I imagine in the 2030s fighters, drones, bombers and other military aircraft will feature at least two laser ball turrets, one on the upper hemisphere the other the lower. These will act as a active defense system; in the event of a missile lock on the system will target the inbound missile at extended range it will try and blind a IR seeker, at intermediate range the laser will try to fry the missile. This system may also be used to disable threat IRST systems.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Yes Kurt lower then a directed energy weapon but not lower then a conventionally operated weapon. That's the kicker. Using a laser fired bullet maybe cool but its no where near cheaper then a conventionally operated assault rifle.

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There's a relation between calibre and amount of propellant. Small advances can be made in that field. Laser is an option to make greater advances on smaller calibre high speed munitions. A different approach for the same solution was the V-3 cannon (that can be compared to railguns in complexity).


Laser offers to option to reduce the recoil by integrating features of recoilless rifles with less energy loss due to the high controlled power output.

Furthermore laser enables to transfer power into a propellant and reduce the overall bulkiness of ammunition while increasing the bulkiness of the gun via a fixed laser installation. The bigger the weapon carrying system, the more munition it uses, the more handy a laser system will be. CIWS sounds like a suitable application.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

Latest General Atomics, live fire Rail Gun test with aerodynamic round at Dugway proving grounds. Summer 2013. Impressive.


It's coming to a US Naval combat vessel near you...soon.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

Kurt said:

There's a relation between calibre and amount of propellant. Small advances can be made in that field. Laser is an option to make greater advances on smaller calibre high speed munitions. A different approach for the same solution was the V-3 cannon (that can be compared to railguns in complexity).

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Laser offers to option to reduce the recoil by integrating features of recoilless rifles with less energy loss due to the high controlled power output.

Furthermore laser enables to transfer power into a propellant and reduce the overall bulkiness of ammunition while increasing the bulkiness of the gun via a fixed laser installation. The bigger the weapon carrying system, the more munition it uses, the more handy a laser system will be. CIWS sounds like a suitable application.

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I am not sure if we are agreeing on the lack of a small arms possibility or not here, but if we are not, I will say this; the trend for the past century into this is for less bulky weapons in infantry as combat closes distance. Advances made are targeted to compact easy to carry for extended periods with easy to maintain operations in order to allow maintenance in any conditions.
The track for future small arms and most crew served weapons will continue to use legacy operation systems IE Blowback, recoil, pistons Bolt actions and in rare cases direct impingement. Metal cases will begin to fade as polymers, ceramic cased and case less ammo move in to place. Weapon barrel lengths will shrink as 20 inches become 18 and 16 and carbines move from 14.5 inches to 13 inch, 12.5 inch,11.5 inch and even as short as 8inchs. Weapons will emphases modularity, being able to be changed to suit different missions and preferences. The most high tech will however be sighting and targeting systems whether though actively guided rounds like the EXACTO or though smart scopes like the new tracking point.
where your laser based operation may become a option is in larger caliber systems, Tank guns using newer propellants, alternatives to metal storm for nations who may not get access to that technology.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News



well "Laser" is in for the next Gen air dominance fighter. How and for what? Not sure.

Re: Naval Laser CIWS and Rail Gun Technology and Development News

TerraN_EmpirE said:

I am not sure if we are agreeing on the lack of a small arms possibility or not here, but if we are not, I will say this; the trend for the past century into this is for less bulky weapons in infantry as combat closes distance. Advances made are targeted to compact easy to carry for extended periods with easy to maintain operations in order to allow maintenance in any conditions.
The track for future small arms and most crew served weapons will continue to use legacy operation systems IE Blowback, recoil, pistons Bolt actions and in rare cases direct impingement. Metal cases will begin to fade as polymers, ceramic cased and case less ammo move in to place. Weapon barrel lengths will shrink as 20 inches become 18 and 16 and carbines move from 14.5 inches to 13 inch, 12.5 inch,11.5 inch and even as short as 8inchs. Weapons will emphases modularity, being able to be changed to suit different missions and preferences. The most high tech will however be sighting and targeting systems whether though actively guided rounds like the EXACTO or though smart scopes like the new tracking point.
where your laser based operation may become a option is in larger caliber systems, Tank guns using newer propellants, alternatives to metal storm for nations who may not get access to that technology.

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I say nothing on small arms. Recoilles rifle seems to have mislead you. It's no small arm, but a cannon.
The last application of lasers will be to provide energy for small arms. There are too many difficulties to solve for that apllication. By contrast it can first be most useful for guns on ships that can store the bulky systems.