US Financial Crisis/Bailout, China's Role

bladerunner said:

quote Crobato >What makes you so sure?

I remember a friend of mind on a business fact finding tour of China once telling me he noticed alot of the newer cleaner technologies such as "scrubbers" in factories were being under utilised. When he questioned why, he was told it was the cost factor. Although this is only one example, i wouldnt be surprised of many more incidences where cost is the driving factor.

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This is particularly a problem in china even for the big SOE's such as Baosteel. The problem is that the environmental fines are still too cheap to offset the cost saving from not operating "green" machines. Thing are slowly changing as more and more NGOs put these companies to shame in the media. In this matter the media is very open here. The fines may not hurt them much now, but as these companies grow and relies on their brand more and more to compete, they will be forced to change. Corrupted officials however, is much more difficult to deal with.

The pollution in china has also reach a critical point as more pollution brings down the overall productivity of the workers here. In order to be competative the government will impose harsher method in stopping further polution in the near future. Also if there are enough people effected by the pollution, "mass incidents" are inevitable and is a likely mechanism to push the govt to act faster.

lol "corrupted officials" isnt "anything but good" for China. they are very competent, and if you have a solution to anything you'll have to look to them to implement it.

we cannot expect the market to somehow demand less pollution from these factories. the best apparatus is the administrative one. China has already given the environmental protection administration a higher status in the state council. but there is still a long way to go. if you overdo it, a lot of ppl are gonna be losing jobs, that's worse than enivronmental degredation if you are not a ignorant/naive treehugger.

with that being said, the economic slowdown is a good opportunity. with all the plants being shut down, the gov may as well strive to replace them with cleaner and more productive modes of production.

pla101prc said:

lol "corrupted officials" isnt anything but good for China. they are very competent, and if you have a solution to anything you'll have to look to them to implement it.

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because as brilliant students of history like you recognize that 'competent officials' have done so much good in running the Chinese economy in the past...

Just in everyone, pla101 declares that we should abandon market reforms and go back to a control economy managed by competent bureaucrats. Death to the China haters and hail to the chairman. :china:

haha very mature and insightful comments fugitive. when logic fails one can always fall back on personal insults.
but i still prefer logic, maybe there is some misuderstanding. but your lack of respect does not make you look very smart

:china::china::china:

China reserves hit $1.95 trillion but growth slows
1/13/2009, 5:08 a.m. EST
The Associated Press

BEIJING (AP) — China's foreign reserves have risen to $1.95 trillion, the central bank said Tuesday, but their growth slowed sharply as trade weakened amid a global economic crisis.

The reserves grew by $45 billion over the three months ending Dec. 31, the bank said in a quarterly report.

China has built up its massive reserves as a flood of export revenues threatened to push up inflation, forcing the central bank to drain money from the economy through bond sales. But that influx of money has moderated in recent months as global economic turmoil hurt demand for Chinese exports.

China's exports fell by 2.8 in December, on top of a 2.2 decline in November, the first in seven years, according to the government.

The reserves rose by $417.8 billion, or 27.3 percent, over the course of 2008, the bank said. That meant the final quarter's increase of $45 billion accounted for just 11 percent of the total.

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On the Net:

People's Bank of China (in Chinese):

© 2009 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

lol i wonder how much american assets washington would let China buy. free market isnt quite "free" when you are dealing with Chinese.

Corruption is a double edge sword. It can motivate a person or destroy a country. However, most from of corruption are short sighted and this is the real danger to the country's progress. I still believe that corruption should be minimize and replace it with other form of incentive such as higher salary, patriotism, prestige, etc.

Autumn Child said:

Corruption is a double edge sword. It can motivate a person or destroy a country. However, most from of corruption are short sighted and this is the real danger to the country's progress. I still believe that corruption should be minimize and replace it with other form of incentive such as higher salary, patriotism, prestige, etc.

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You are saying that there are long sighted and positive corruption? hmmm....

Autumn Child said:

Corruption is a double edge sword. It can motivate a person or destroy a country. However, most from of corruption are short sighted and this is the real danger to the country's progress. I still believe that corruption should be minimize and replace it with other form of incentive such as higher salary, patriotism, prestige, etc.

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well no doubt corruption needs to be removed. but in doing so China is risking a lot of other things. there have been many cases in the history of China where good officials lose their lives because they were too eager to fight corruption. just read up on the history of China, its not as easy as some ppl describe it to be. "o just find them and jail them". no its nothing like that. very difficult to explain how this works because its super complex. but one thing is clear that is these officials who are corrupted are also very talented at what they do. China actually need these ppl to manage the country. besides, if you curb gov corruption it moves to somewhere else. like i have said many times, the US represents another form of corruption and it has led to this fiasco we are seeing now. so there is no easy answer and definitely no easy solution to this.

pla101prc said:

like i have said many times, the US represents another form of corruption to this.

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As in pork barrel politics and horse trading?........ a fact pointed out by Charles Dickens when he toured America