US Financial Crisis/Bailout, China's Role

FugitiveVisions

Junior Member
Good stuff Crobato.

Besides supercomputers, are there other military systems or sub-systems under development that are commercially viable?

I'm trying to make the point that manufacturing jobs going abroad is actually helping to fund higher education and military R&D in the States, two of the critical components in allowing this country maintain leadership in cutting-edge technologies such as material science and electronic science, and that the reason we haven't benefited from the knowledge derived is the monopoly that the military has imposed on the technology. I happen to fully agree with your assessment that government spending is a great way to give birth to these technologies, but I'm not sure if you share my assessment that the manufacturing sector has suffered at the hands of the Pentagon for refusing commercialization of these technologies rather than the Chinese exchange rate manipulation.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Good stuff Crobato.

Besides supercomputers, are there other military systems or sub-systems under development that are commercially viable?

I'm trying to make the point that manufacturing jobs going abroad is actually helping to fund higher education and military R&D in the States, two of the critical components in allowing this country maintain leadership in cutting-edge technologies such as material science and electronic science, and that the reason we haven't benefited from the knowledge derived is the monopoly that the military has imposed on the technology. I happen to fully agree with your assessment that government spending is a great way to give birth to these technologies, but I'm not sure if you share my assessment that the manufacturing sector has suffered at the hands of the Pentagon for refusing commercialization of these technologies rather than the Chinese exchange rate manipulation.

Military datalink technologies already have their commercial counterparts, and the commercial kind travel with much greater bandwidth. You call them wireless broad band networks. Cellular phone technology originated from those mobile phone sets the military used. Today however, it seems more of commercial technology going to the military rather than military technology going to the private sector. That leaves you with technologies that have to be military and government funded because they don't have any use on the private sector, e.g. ku to Ka band radars for fire control.

A lot of so called military technologies are now originated in the private sector. For example, the use of composites in aircraft. Its driven by civil aviation where every ounce of weight saved is fuel saved and thus money saved. A lot of carbon fiber development is fueled by auto racing, where entire car bodies are built out of carbon fiber. The next wave of material sciences, carbon nanotube, is fueled mostly by commercial and private development, even though the US military deems this technology as strategic. Both of these technologies require economies of scale in order to become truly commercially viable, since the scale leads to lower and more efficient production costs, and that means private sector products are required. The more you can sell of products made of them, the better, even if it means selling them to China or Russia since you cannot ignore large markets.

[I am actually in the opinion that a domestic auto racing industry in China would greatly benefit the car makers there].

Preventing products to be sold in China means the other guy, mainly the Japanese, Koreans and Europeans, will take that same technology and sell it there. So the other guy gets more volume, profits and production scale. In the long run, its the other guy who benefits and get the momentum for technology development. In the long run, the Japanese-European company and brand becomes more technologically developed, gets better quality and cheaper, and the American brand withers.

The smart guys in the US knows this, which is why they don't stop GE selling commercial state of the art turbofans in China or build nuclear plants over there.

The Pentagon blacklists certain products and chips from going to China. For example, there was an issue over a certain chip used for the INS used in Boeing 737s that may have potential missile applications for obvious reasons. So the maker of that chip decided to make another chip, which turns out to be more advanced because after all, it was a later design, to be fitted on the export 737s, and decided not to sell this chip to the Pentagon at all, so it won't be China export blacklisted. In the meantime, the Chinese did figure out making such chips themselves. You won't learn making chips and chip design just by pulling the chips out from a PC motherboard, do you?
 
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crobato

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Dec 10, 2008


THE BEAR'S LAIR
Worse than the Great Depression
By Martin Hutchinson

In spite of Friday's alarming rise of 533,000 in US unemployment, there still seems little chance when you look at the near-term future that the current unpleasantness will turn into a rerun of the Great Depression, or anything like it.

Gross domestic product (GDP) may decline by more than the 3% to 4% declines seen in 1974 and 1981-82, but there seems no immediate danger of it shrinking anywhere near the magnitude of the 1929-33 decline. However, in the long term, things are not so rosy; over the next 15 years, Americans and Europeans may suffer a worse fall in their living standards than during the Great Depression, albeit played out agonizingly slowly.

Benchmarking first: According to Bureau of Economic Analysis statistics, GDP declined 26.6% between 1929 and 1933 while real personal income declined 25.7%. Real personal consumption expenditures declined 18.2%. Per capita, with US population increasing about 1.5% per annum during those years, real personal income declined 30% and consumption 23%. In terms of living standards, real per capita personal consumption expenditures did not recover to their 1929 level until 1941, giving American consumers 12 years of living standards lower than they had become used to.

There is only one way (apart from gross government ineptitude, which fortunately under president-elect Barack Obama seems fairly unlikely) that US or Western European GDP could fall anything like it did in the Great Depression, and that is through globalization.

It is now abundantly clear that, through the simultaneous arrival of the Internet and cheap cell-phone technology, the pace of globalization increased markedly around 1995, with global supply chains for time-sensitive products and services being for the first time possible without enormous effort, thus propelling new participants, notably India and China, into the global free-market economy.

This has had the apparently benign (though less so in reality) effect of allowing rich-country monetary authorities, particularly in the United States, to keep monetary conditions lax without stoking inflation, except in the prices of stocks and housing. The low interest rates and easy credit produced by the lax monetary policy in turn sped globalization by increasing the availability of capital for emerging-market production facilities and reducing the cost of conducting global trade.

In the long term, a major effect of economic globalization is to reduce the income gap between rich and poor countries by bringing the latter fully into the nexus of the global economy. While factors of differential education, capital, natural resources, infrastructure and work ethic remain, they can be expected to diminish as globalization proceeds. Thus the world becomes more equal, even as it becomes richer.

Eventually, it may become fully equal, with difficulties of geography making no difference to earnings, and a capable hardworking educated Lesothan earning the same as a capable hardworking educated American. Kumbaya!

There is one snag, at least for rich countries such as the United States, Western Europe and Japan. If the world becomes more equal more quickly than it becomes richer, then living standards in rich countries must decline. If the world were suddenly to achieve equal income levels between countries without a significant increase in output, US living standards would fall by over three quarters.

Some quantification: the GDP per capita at purchasing power parity of the United States in 2007 was $45,800, thus 4.58 times the $10,000 average GDP per capita of the world as a whole. World GDP per capita grew by 2.58% in 1960-2000, a period of gradually increasing globalization involving no global wars and no depression eras akin to the 1930s. So 2.58% per capita per annum must thus be close to the available "speed limit" of global GDP growth.

If world per capita GDP grows at 2.58% per annum, it will come to equal US GDP per capita of $45,800 in 60 years. Thus, if the globalization process attains final equality in that year, that is to say, US and Lesothan GDP per capita are equal, for instance, the Americans of 2067 will be able to enjoy just the same living standards they can today. To allow for any growth in US living standards, we must suppose that even by 2067, the world will still be unequal, so that major areas of the world (not just "pockets of poverty") have failed to integrate fully into the world economy. That is quite possible, but not inevitable - one can imagine the liberalization pressures on say a repressive, self-reliant North Korean regime if not only South Korea but also rural China and Vietnam are enjoying Western living standards.

While the final approach to worldwide income inequality between countries may be slow, there is every reason to suppose that globalization's recent acceleration has greatly reduced the level of inequality at which the global economic system is in equilibrium. Whereas in an autarkic global economy with poor communications and limited trade, it is quite possible to imagine one country being 20 times richer than another, in a globalized world it is unlikely that two countries with literate work forces and free-market economic systems could differ so much in per capita output.

Suppose, for example, that globalization's acceleration is sufficient to reduce the gap in global living standards by half in 15 years, so that instead of the United States having 4.58 times the world's living standard in 2022, it will have only 2.29 times that average. Then if global growth remains constant, the world's average GDP per capita in 2022 will be $14,653. 2022's US per capita GDP, at 2.29 times global per capita GDP, would be $33,556, a 26.8% drop from today, close to the drop in the Great Depression.

However, whereas the Great Depression enjoyed a softening effect from a sharp decline in the savings rate, to produce a drop in per capita consumption of only 23%, that option is not available today, since the US savings rate is unsustainably low, ought to increase and would almost certainly be forced to increase as Asian investors proved reluctant to invest ever more billions in the T-bonds of a declining economy. Thus under the scenario painted here, per capita personal consumption in 2007-22 would decline at least 26.8%, compared with 23% in the Great Depression.

How likely is this scenario? Optimists may object that rapid globalization of this type would boost the global economic growth rate, and so reduce the hit to US living standards. The current global growth rate of 2.58% is mostly caused by three factors: technological progress, capital deepening and worldwide diffusion of new capabilities. Rapid globalization would increase the rate of diffusion of new capabilities, and might also modestly increase the efficiency of capital allocation, but it seems unlikely to speed technological progress more than modestly. Even so, there would at first glance appear to be some hope of avoiding the "worse than the 1930s" scenario through faster global growth.

There are, however, a number of factors leading in the opposite direction, toward an even greater decline in US living standards.

First, there is the political effect on the US public and through them, on elected politicians, of a decline in living standards through globalization. Rather than a gradual decline in life's possibilities shared by all, the decline in US living standards would probably take the form of an increase in unemployment save for those in secure jobs that, safe from international competition and entrenched in their position, suffer no real reduction in income.

Indeed, November's unexpectedly sharp unemployment increase, which was accompanied by a significant rise in real hourly income, could be an early indication of such a trend: education, health and government, all immune to international competition, were the only sectors to enjoy job growth. The political result of declining US living standards accompanied by rising unemployment, fairly clearly linked to globalization, would surely be harsh protectionism among both voters and political leaders.

In the days of US domination, a rise in US protectionism might have led to a reversal of globalization and maintenance of US living standards, albeit at the cost of a marked reduction in global growth. That is to some extent what happened in the 1930s. Today, however, globalization has gone so far that US self-reliance would be economically impossible except at inordinate cost. All kinds of global supply chains and product relationships would have to be unwound, as the US consumer reverted to buying sweatshirts made in North Carolina rather than China or Vietnam. Emerging market manufacturing capabilities would not be lost, and emerging market living standards not much affected. Thus, the main effect of US protectionism would be to reduce US living standards still further.

A second factor intensifying the decline in US living standards is the appallingly low US savings rate and the reduction in the US capital pool that has resulted from over a decade of excessively low interest rates. Capital is the principal ingredient of successful capitalism, and its concentration in first Britain, then the United States and Western Europe and later Japan was the major factor behind those countries' economic development and rising wealth. In the era of funny money since 1995, capital has been inadequately rewarded worldwide, and risk premiums have compressed, so that it is little more expensive to make a $1 billion investment in Hanoi than in Harrisburg.

Now capital will become once again scarce, but the US and to a lesser extent European problem is that they no longer have a monopoly of it. Hence emerging markets will be better able to finance their own investment programs, assisting their economic growth but providing yet more competition to a suddenly capital-short West. Eventually the US savings rate must rise, so that the capital stock can be rebuilt (and Americans can pay for their old age and medical care) but that rise will itself further depress consumption.

The final factor depressing long-term living standards is the unwise policy response in the last few months to the credit crunch and the beginnings of global downturn.

Throughout the world, but particularly in the United States and Western Europe, governments have resorted to bailouts and "stimulus packages" that have exploded public sector deficits and increased the power of government in the economy. Contrary to popular and journalists' beliefs, these expenditures are not free; they must be borrowed. In a time of tight credit such as we are now experiencing and are likely to continue experiencing for some time to come, that borrowing crowds out other more productive uses of capital.

It has been remarked the total cost of bailouts by the Federal Reserve, the Treasury and other public sector authorities approaches that of World War II, corrected for inflation. However, from World War II, we got the jet engine, rocketry and the computer, whereas no significant technological spin-off is likely to result from US$600 billion invested by the Fed in redundant home mortgages.

Crowding out of lesser credits by the Treasury, which already appears to be happening with respect to Latin America, could theoretically have worked to the relative advantage of the United States in the days when the US had all the capital. However, capital is today broadly spread and the biggest pools of it are in Asian and Middle Eastern public sector funds. Hence the principal effect of "crowding out" by national governments will be on their domestic economies, and in particular on the small and medium-sized businesses from which growth, innovation and jobs principally come.

The speed of globalization and the balance between factors tending to mitigate its adverse effects on the US and Western Europe and those tending to intensify those effects is unclear. Nevertheless, the probability of a long-term decline in US living standards comparable to if not deeper than the Great Depression must be rated as fairly high. It will take the form, not of a single catastrophic collapse as in 1929-33, but of a series of sharp unpleasant recessions, interspersed with feeble unconvincing recoveries in a downward saw-tooth pattern. The result will be the same, albeit over a longer period.

The only saving grace is that the decline will eventually bottom out and be followed by gradual recovery, as global growth continues and the United States shares in it. Even so, this is far from the future Americans have envisioned for themselves.

There are few policy responses that will do any good. Probably the most important is to raise the real return on risk-free savings as quickly as possible to around 5% to 6%, higher than the equilibrium rate, while eliminating the federal budget deficit. These actions will rebuild the US capital stock, whose depleted state is currently the most dangerous factor facing the US economy. Since the United States is still an important factor in the global economy, particularly if its money tightening is followed by the European Central Bank to solve the similar but less extreme savings problem there, interest rates and risk premiums worldwide will increase.

That will raise the cost of building new production facilities in such emerging markets as India that are short of capital, though not in those such as China where capital appears to be plentiful. By doing so, the US can slow the pace of globalization, so that the increasing wealth in emerging markets involves less wealth decline domestically.

Before you dismiss this speculation as far-fetched, remember: everyone used to think house prices could not fall nationwide.

Martin Hutchinson is the author of Great Conservatives (Academica Press, 2005) - details can be found at
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.
 

FugitiveVisions

Junior Member
Military datalink technologies already have their commercial counterparts, and the commercial kind travel with much greater bandwidth. You call them wireless broad band networks. Cellular phone technology originated from those mobile phone sets the military used. Today however, it seems more of commercial technology going to the military rather than military technology going to the private sector. That leaves you with technologies that have to be military and government funded because they don't have any use on the private sector, e.g. ku to Ka band radars for fire control.

A lot of so called military technologies are now originated in the private sector. For example, the use of composites in aircraft. Its driven by civil aviation where every ounce of weight saved is fuel saved and thus money saved. A lot of carbon fiber development is fueled by auto racing, where entire car bodies are built out of carbon fiber. The next wave of material sciences, carbon nanotube, is fueled mostly by commercial and private development, even though the US military deems this technology as strategic. Both of these technologies require economies of scale in order to become truly commercially viable, since the scale leads to lower and more efficient production costs, and that means private sector products are required. The more you can sell of products made of them, the better, even if it means selling them to China or Russia since you cannot ignore large markets.

[I am actually in the opinion that a domestic auto racing industry in China would greatly benefit the car makers there].

Preventing products to be sold in China means the other guy, mainly the Japanese, Koreans and Europeans, will take that same technology and sell it there. So the other guy gets more volume, profits and production scale. In the long run, its the other guy who benefits and get the momentum for technology development. In the long run, the Japanese-European company and brand becomes more technologically developed, gets better quality and cheaper, and the American brand withers.

The smart guys in the US knows this, which is why they don't stop GE selling commercial state of the art turbofans in China or build nuclear plants over there.

The Pentagon blacklists certain products and chips from going to China. For example, there was an issue over a certain chip used for the INS used in Boeing 737s that may have potential missile applications for obvious reasons. So the maker of that chip decided to make another chip, which turns out to be more advanced because after all, it was a later design, to be fitted on the export 737s, and decided not to sell this chip to the Pentagon at all, so it won't be China export blacklisted. In the meantime, the Chinese did figure out making such chips themselves. You won't learn making chips and chip design just by pulling the chips out from a PC motherboard, do you?

What conclusion can we draw from this? I mean is the lack of commercialization of the technologies derived from the large military budget an indication that the capital flow from foreign sources have not been allocated efficiently to generate long term productive endeavors?
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
What conclusion can we draw from this? I mean is the lack of commercialization of the technologies derived from the large military budget an indication that the capital flow from foreign sources have not been allocated efficiently to generate long term productive endeavors?

Well, first, there are certain technologies that can't be commercialized because their use is purely military and lacks commercial uses. A good example is solid rocket propellant. The only other thing you can use for that is for solid fuel satellite launchers. Stealth technology is another thing that has zero commercial use although the elements of making one does have commercial use.

Then there are technologies from the commercial sector going into the military sector. This migration happens more often now than before, and almost concerns all things electronic.

Which leaves you with whatever is left.

"I mean is the lack of commercialization of the technologies derived from the large military budget an indication that the capital flow from foreign sources have not been allocated efficiently to generate long term productive endeavors?"

Which is to say yes. Anything that isn't allocated for commercial use does not generate income nor create new jobs. Without commercial use, there are no economies of scale. All this in the long run also makes the technology more expensive for the military because there is no other income that subsidizes this technology, and without economies of scale, each item becomes a lot more expensive. Very expensive indeed.

Let's take a hypothetical example.

The military wants a dedicated processor chip all to itself. For that, the company makes Processor M. The same company also makes a different processor chip for the commercial sector, call it Processor C.

Because the military wants Processor M to be the best possible, at the starting gate, Processor M is better than Processor C. Despite a large budget, the military can only afford to purchase 10,000 units of Processor M. However, the commercial chip can sell 10 million units or more. When it comes to silicon, economies of scale is king. The result is that M may costs over 100,000$ a piece while C will only cost $100.

Because C makes a lot more money for that company, more development funds for Project C as opposed to Project M. As a result, successive versions of C will have a faster product development and deployment cycle, and soon enough, C evolves into something far more capable than M. M on the other hand, requires a timely, bureaucratic and byzantine model of certification, so by the time a new member of the M family becomes certified, the C model has gone through a few generations further in product cycles. In the end, you can guess what happened. M has fallen far behind compared to C, the military chooses C for its future systems, and the tax payer's money used in developing M is all wasted.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
The start of a new economic bloc...

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China, Japan, S Korea vow to boost effective co-op to tackle economic crisis
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2008-12-13 19:05:41 Print

Special: Premier Wen attends tripartite summit of China, Japan, ROK

Backgrounder: Trilateral meeting of leaders of China, Japan, S Korea

FUKUOKA, Japan, Dec. 13 (Xinhua) -- Leaders of China, Japan and South Korea agreed Saturday to enhance effective cooperation in dealing with challenges amid the raging global financial crisis.

It is important to enhance regional cooperation to tackle the ongoing financial turmoil, said the Joint Statement on the International Finance and Economy issued after a meeting of Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso and South Korean President Lee Myung-bak.

Welcome the results of the Trilateral Finance Ministers' Meeting among China, Japan and South Korea on Nov. 14 in Washington and the recent decisions on the increase in the size of the bilateral swap arrangements among the three countries, the leaders also welcomed the setting up of the Tripartite Governors' Meeting of the three central banks to be held on a regular basis.

The three leaders reiterated their commitment to working with ASEAN members to expedite the process of the Chiang Mai Intitiative Multilateralization and strengthen regional surveillance mechanism for effective monitoring on the regional economy and financial markets, the statement said.

Efforts are needed to minimize the negative impacts of the financial crisis on the global economy, to facilitate regional trade and investment and promote regional cooperation, according to the statement.

They affirmed that the three countries should play a greater role in reversing the downward trend of the world economy and return it to the path of sustainable growth.

Moreover, in order to counter protectionism, they pledged efforts to reach an ambitious, balanced and comprehensive conclusion of the Doha Development Agenda as early as possible.

The three leaders pledged to refrain from setting new barriers to investment and trade in goods and services, imposing new export restrictions, or implementing WTO inconsistent measures to stimulate exports within the next 12 months.

It is vital to promote cooperation among Asian countries not only in the financial sector but also in the real economy, they said.

They agreed that measures aimed at promoting growth and expanding domestic demand are of vital significance.

Therefore, they decided to strengthen trilateral cooperation to overcome the negative impacts of the global financial storm and achieve sustainable development in Asia.

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Premier: China strives to maintain stable economic growth amid global financial upheavals
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2008-12-13 18:38:29 Print

Special: Premier Wen attends tripartite summit of China, Japan, ROK

Backgrounder: Trilateral meeting of leaders of China, Japan, S Korea  

FUKUOKA, Japan, Dec. 13 (Xinhua) -- China is now adopting various measures to expand domestic demand and striving to maintain the stable and relatively rapid growth of its economy, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao said here Saturday.

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao is present at a tripartite meeting, which is also attended by Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso and South Korean President Lee Myung-bak, in Fukuoka, Japan, Dec. 13, 2008. (Xinhua Photo)
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Wen made the remarks in response to a question at a joint press conference with Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso and South Korean President Lee Myung-bak after a tripartite meeting of the three leaders earlier in the day.

The move will play an important and positive role in preserving financial and economic stability of the region, Wen said.

The Chinese premier said that following the global financial crisis, China promptly adjusted its macroeconomic policy and introduced active financial policies and a moderately relaxed monetary policy, including the reduction of its interest rates for several times in a row, the formulation of 10 major measures aiming at expanding domestic demand and the investment of 4 trillion yuan within two years.

China's stable and relatively rapid development in economy is in itself an important contribution to safeguarding the international financial stability and promoting regional economic growth, he added.

Meanwhile, China is working with East Asian countries to tackle the ongoing financial crisis and is committed to promoting the development of real economy within the region, Wen said.

Faced with the unprecedented financial crisis, China, with a responsible and reliable government, is ready to work with East Asian countries to properly address the risks and challenges and hopes to achieve mutually beneficial and win-win results in cooperation with them, he said.

Wen arrived here earlier Saturday for a one-day trilateral meeting with the Japanese and South Korean leaders.

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China, Japan, S Korea agree to enhance systematic co-op
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2008-12-13 17:49:56 Print

Special: Premier Wen attends tripartite summit of China, Japan, ROK

Backgrounder: Trilateral meeting of leaders of China, Japan, S Korea

FUKUOKA, Japan, Dec. 13 (Xinhua) -- China, Japan and South Korea agreed on Saturday to carry out various cooperation in a systematic manner.

Cooperation among the three countries has developed significantly in terms of quantity and quality in recent years, said a joint statement issued after a summit Saturday which gathered Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso and South Korean President Lee Myung-bak.

The three countries are now required more than ever to systematically manage a variety of cooperation activities in the future, said the statement, entitled "Action Plan for Promoting Trilateral Cooperation" among China, Japan and South Korea.

The action plan, which was based on several documents on tripartite cooperation concluded previously among the three countries, aims to outline specific steps for cooperation activities in various fields, it said.

The action plan is to be drawn up every two to three years by the three countries in rotation, the statement said.



China, Japan, S Korea sign joint statement on partnership relations

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao (L), Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso (C) and South Korean President Lee Myung-bak shake hands after signing a joint statement for Tripartite Partnership after a tripartite meeting in Fukuoka, Japan, Dec. 13, 2008. (Xinhua Photo)
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FUKUOKA, Japan, Dec. 13 (Xinhua) -- Leaders of China, Japan and South Korea signed a joint statement on trilateral partnership relations here Saturday.

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso and South Korean President Lee Myung-bak signed the statement to promote tripartite cooperation in various fields after holding a trilateral meeting. Full story
 

Engineer

Major
Well, first, there are certain technologies that can't be commercialized because their use is purely military and lacks commercial uses. A good example is solid rocket propellant. The only other thing you can use for that is for solid fuel satellite launchers.
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Stealth technology is another thing that has zero commercial use although the elements of making one does have commercial use.
I wouldn't say zero. Traffikings are commerical activities after all. :roll:
 

FugitiveVisions

Junior Member
Well, first, there are certain technologies that can't be commercialized because their use is purely military and lacks commercial uses. A good example is solid rocket propellant. The only other thing you can use for that is for solid fuel satellite launchers. Stealth technology is another thing that has zero commercial use although the elements of making one does have commercial use.

Then there are technologies from the commercial sector going into the military sector. This migration happens more often now than before, and almost concerns all things electronic.

Which leaves you with whatever is left.

"I mean is the lack of commercialization of the technologies derived from the large military budget an indication that the capital flow from foreign sources have not been allocated efficiently to generate long term productive endeavors?"

Which is to say yes. Anything that isn't allocated for commercial use does not generate income nor create new jobs. Without commercial use, there are no economies of scale. All this in the long run also makes the technology more expensive for the military because there is no other income that subsidizes this technology, and without economies of scale, each item becomes a lot more expensive. Very expensive indeed.

Let's take a hypothetical example.

The military wants a dedicated processor chip all to itself. For that, the company makes Processor M. The same company also makes a different processor chip for the commercial sector, call it Processor C.

Because the military wants Processor M to be the best possible, at the starting gate, Processor M is better than Processor C. Despite a large budget, the military can only afford to purchase 10,000 units of Processor M. However, the commercial chip can sell 10 million units or more. When it comes to silicon, economies of scale is king. The result is that M may costs over 100,000$ a piece while C will only cost $100.

Because C makes a lot more money for that company, more development funds for Project C as opposed to Project M. As a result, successive versions of C will have a faster product development and deployment cycle, and soon enough, C evolves into something far more capable than M. M on the other hand, requires a timely, bureaucratic and byzantine model of certification, so by the time a new member of the M family becomes certified, the C model has gone through a few generations further in product cycles. In the end, you can guess what happened. M has fallen far behind compared to C, the military chooses C for its future systems, and the tax payer's money used in developing M is all wasted.

If the massive amounts of money spent on military research hasn't yield any productive capacity for the states in terms of leading to the development of commercially viable technology, then we ought to blame the US for the misallocation of capital rather than the Chinese. Chinese loans to the treasury have really made loans cheap for both government and private sources, so it should be entirely up to the US to make something out of it.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
If the massive amounts of money spent on military research hasn't yield any productive capacity for the states in terms of leading to the development of commercially viable technology, then we ought to blame the US for the misallocation of capital rather than the Chinese. Chinese loans to the treasury have really made loans cheap for both government and private sources, so it should be entirely up to the US to make something out of it.

In a way true. Military spending to development technology is government spending and hence Keynesian and not free market. Technology like everything else is market driven. If we are using technological resources for something that does not have an economic payback, it is not an efficient allocation of resources, both of capital and of technological development resources such as talent.

Granted of course, there still has to be some form of Keynesian led technology development spending since free markets. Stuff like pure research (space, physics, genetics, astronomy), towards ecology and alternative fuels, or research towards long term development (e.g. fusion power), are also government or institutionally funded, just like military funded development into weapons systems et all.

Not an easy issue to resolve. There always have to be some form of Keynesian spending and determination as the government has to nudge the rest of the society to the proper direction for the common welfare. But its also clear that Keynesian led technology initiative can't go over the top as well, otherwise you are going into the same path as the Soviet Union.

Japan is a great example of commercial determination of technology. They have not sent a man into space, or the moon, or build nuclear ships and missiles, but their technology excels in all those places that do make money. So today, Japan has far greater industrial GDP than all the successor states of the Soviet Union combined. The US can build a fighter jet that will rule over anyone else, but they can't make a car better than Toyota. So guess what happened. You can claim "aerial dominance" while Toyota-Nissan-Honda dominates your highways. Of course, aircraft and autos are apples and oranges, but we really should not think of them as different because all this is in a much larger context of the economy that determines which area of technology that we should invest in to obtain the greatest return.

It isn't just money or capital, its also about your brain capital. The guys developing fighter jets won't be developing autos. If your best minds are developing nuclear weapons, they won't be developing consumer electronics or medicine. This is also about the most optimal economic assignment and distribution of your brain capital.

In a way, this question also plagues "pure" science researchers like astrophysicists that absolutely no way is going to get an ROI for the development dollars. Should we neglect pure science as well? Our approach to pure science is that it is necessary for a nation to nurture its brain capital and there has to be some form of measured Keynesian initiative on it. "Measured" is the key word here.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
I want to make this a separate post and point this one issue again.

Chinese loans to the treasury have really made loans cheap for both government and private sources, so it should be entirely up to the US to make something out of it.

Personally, I think Chinese loans to the Treasury is part of the problem and not the solution. The analogy I have in my mind is that these loans are like animal feed. You use them to fatten the animals up and then harvest them later on. These loans create an economic distortion, they keep the Yuan artificially down while keeping the dollar artificially high. At the same time, make credit artificially cheap. If the US has to be rejuvenated, it can start with having to bite the bullet, follow true fiscal conservatism and not take any foreign loans at all. Make risks expensive and risky and that means raising the interest rates.

This is a challenge to free market thinkers. The free market does not work at all, when distortions are in place. Cheap credit made risk taking not so risky after all. This is a distortion. Cheap credit is what allowed companies to become corporate raiders to raid other companies, often manufacturing companies, then break up these companies and sell parts of them elsewhere. Many a manufacturing company in the US has fallen this way. Chinese capital isn't the blame for this, they're just latest in line of Japanese and Asian capital that flowed into the US market since the late eighties, all thanks to Mr. Alan Greenspan. Cheap credit makes things easier to just buy them rather than make them, especially with the artificially propped up dollar. The result is the manufacturing migration.

With this, the Western world migrated unknowingly to a new form of -ism. Call it Consumerism as opposed to Capitalism.

Consumerism can be defined as an economic system where consumption drives the economy, is the economic engine, and determines where the development and allocation of resources. It is the free choice of the consumer that determines the economic structure.

Consumerism works hand in hand with Capitalism but in fact its different. Capitalism is an economic system in where capital, as defined by money, land, people and assets of production are owned, operated and traded chiefly by private individuals or private organizations for the purpose of profit. Capitalism is a form of production, not consumption. Here you see in this term that the idea of Capitalism does not originally include Consumerism.

In essence the West has become less Capitalistic and in a way because globalism (another -ism) meant we don't really have much of capital anymore, with capital moving to Asian countries. So these Asian countries become the Producers, while others become the Consumers. The Producers are the true Capitalists, not the Consumers.
 
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